Talk:Guto Harri

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This article is the subject of a request emailed to the Volunteer Response Team (VRT).

Issues identified are: In the UK birth certificates often do not record a surname; modern practice means we mostly take our fathers surname. However in Welsh tradition, which Harri's family observed, the surname is taken from the father's first name. The website "find my past" is apparently not able to cope with this situation and incorrectly lists Harri's birth name. Please don't restore it. --Errant ^(chat!) 09:08, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The VRTS ticket number is 2012052210002701.

Please discuss these issues here, being mindful of the policies on biographies of living persons.

Untitled

Cite for "In February 2008, he left the BBC to join Fleishman-Hillard London, a public relations agency, as a Senior Policy Advisor in public affairs."? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.0.123.12 (talk) 15:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Dubious" pronunciation of first name

"His first name is pronounced "GITT-o", the vowel in the second syllable being undiphthongised (/ˈɡɪtɒ/)"

Would whoever added the "dubious" label care to explain exactly what part of this they find "dubious" and why? Rather than just adding unhelpful labels that disfigure the article I mean? Flapdragon (talk) 18:26, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That isn't a possible English pronunciation: you can't end a word in /ɒ/. Neither is it Welsh, for that matter, if we assume that the language were misattributed, since Welsh does not have an /ɒ/. kwami (talk) 00:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well now, that would be because it's not an English name. English does however have a /ɒ/ phoneme and this is the one that the Welsh sound (however you care to interpret it in your analysis of Welsh, which let's not get into) maps onto. What exactly makes it not possible in English? Really not clear what your problem is with this! Flapdragon (talk) 00:09, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I guess Kwami's point was that English words never end in /ɒ/ - it's not "impossible" in any physical sense, it just never happens, so /ˈɡɪtɒ/ would sound strange if dropped into an English sentence. Of course, Welsh names can end in a monophthong o-sound, but then this wouldn't be /ɒ/. So I think what we should do is provide the native Welsh pronunciation. I can't - can you add it?

It's not "impossible" in any sense at all. Flapdragon (talk) 16:55, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Often in the case of foreign-language names we give both a native and an anglicised pronunciation, e.g. Antonin Dvorak or Albert Einstein, but the anglicised one has to be compatible with English phonology. Lfh (talk) 09:49, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We could, though I don't see much point. This is the English Wikipedia. What matters is how this non-English name should be pronounced in English, and the transcription does that perfectly. What do you understand by "compatible with English phonology"? Perhaps you mean English phonetics? The transcription shouldn't include any sounds that don't exist in English? -- which it doesn't. Obviously the name doesn't conform to English phonotactical constraints, which apply to, er, English -- and neither do the names Dvorak or Einstein. Flapdragon (talk) 16:55, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We could start by giving the Welsh pronunciation - it would be something like ['gɨ̞tɔ], but a native speaker would have to confirm this. In English I usually hear it as /'gɪtoʊ/, but that's just anecdotal, I don't know if it can be referenced. Lfh (talk) 15:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We can go with that for now. If s.o. contests it, they can supply the correct pron. kwami (talk) 18:47, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You mean like the pron you've just changed, which was supplied many months ago, but which you have developed such a powerful but inexplicable resistance to? Well, never mind, life is too short to spend any more time on this, but I do hope you won't now go round every Welsh name you can think of and start objecting to it because it "sounds strange" in an English sentence. Oh, and if you ever get the chance do listen to Guto's pronunciation of his own name on a news report (shame he's now left the BBC). But please don't send him an email telling him he's got it all wrong. Flapdragon (talk) 19:58, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, if you can actually do anything, please help out. If you're just going to whine, why bother us? kwami (talk) 20:06, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This all seems to be a bit of a fuss over very little. Does anyone have a serious objection to /ˈgɪtɔ ˈhari/? That's how a Welsh-speaker from South Wales (i.e. a man like Guto Harri) would pronounce the name (a northerner like me would say /ˈgɨ̞tɔ ˈhari/). As far as I can tell, the only issue with the article as it was is the use of /ɒ/ instead of /ɔ/. garik (talk) 10:06, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited the article. It's not clear to me that English people definitely tend to pronounce his name /'gɪtoʊ/; they may use a schwa. Most of his colleagues, I suspect, attempt to pronounce it something like he pronounces it. /ɫ/ isn't an English sound either, but Rory Cellan-Jones's colleagues all seem to have a go at pronouncing it as in Welsh. I'll have to keep my ears open next time he's on the news. garik (talk) 10:15, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Garik. This was only ever a problem over IPA and now it's resolved. The English pronunciation can always be provided as well, if it can be shown that there is a standard version in English. I'm restoring the original phrase about "undiphthongised o" because this is clearly true and relevant - it was only the transcription that was problematic. Cheers Lfh (talk) 16:47, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Last name

How did the very unusual (unique?) adoption of a parental first name as an offspring's surname come about?

This is so unusual that it requires explanation. Did his parents make that choice? Did he later change his name? By deed poll? By usage? 86.139.218.171 (talk) 21:27, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See Welsh surnames#Revival of patronymics. Verbcatcher (talk) 06:15, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index for Cardiff, 1966, Q3, vol.8b, p.335, has his details as "Pritchard-Jones, Guto". So, the form "Guto Harri" would have been adopted by either himself or his parents, either at birth or at some later point. The birth index is a primary source and should not be used directly in the article. However, if there are any secondary sources, his registered birth name should be included in the article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:14, 6 February 2022 (UTC) PS: Checking back, I see it was included in the article up to 2012, but removed here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:19, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

recent months

Section Brexit/Boris Johnson says he left his job in Sep 2022; it's now June 2023 (or will be in a few hours) so nearly nine months. Ought this article say what he's done since? Nick Barnett (talk) 15:56, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]