Talk:Ravidas

Article rename?

There is no precedent of using Guru as an honorific title for any Bhakti saints in medieval India or even modern India outside of the state of Punjab. The district created and named after him in Uttar Pradesh in the early 2000's by the government led by Mayawati(also a Chamar by caste) that includes his native village and the area where he spent his life is named "Sant Ravidass Nagar." Also, most references going back a few centuries and upto a decade ago refer to him as Sant, Bhakt or Bhagat(Punjabi). The new title has been added exclusively by the Ravidasia Ad Dharam movement of Bist Doab region in Punjab, India that has always been enumerated as a Hindu sect in the Indian census but keep the Sikh holy scriptures the Guru Granth Sahib in their places of worship mainly because that's how the knowledge of Ravidas and his teachings entered Punjab when all non-brahmnical castes whether hindu or those converted to Sikhism started following the book as the main religious text but that was discontinued among upper caste hindus in the wake of the hindu revivalist Arya Samaj movement in the early 20th century. The keeping and preaching of all Hindu texts was forbidden to the lower castes and the The Adi granth not only included hymns from saints of all castes but was also available to all for their life and death rituals regardless of ones caste. And it being the only religious text with the entire body of hymns created by him.

Various attempts were made by the Arya Samajis through the Ad dharam movement in the 1920's after a failed attempt in the late 1800's to influence Ravidasias of Bist Doab away from Sikh scriptures during the same time period. This assertion of separate religious identity under the name of Ravidasia religion too started among the communtiy members settled in the West after the conflict in 2009, not by the community in Punjab or let alone his native region in the Hindi belt states but by the affluent expatriate Bist Doab Ravidasia community or Chamar as commonly known in North India. Now the special title Guru or the more recent Shri Guru Ravidas ji Maharaj, and the proposed new religion is an attempt to reinvent his identity to rival the ten Sikh gurus for whom the title Shri Guru or Maharaj is traditionally used by the most religious folks or more commonly Guru as the title and ji at the end. And also to project the theory that since Ravidasias who are enumerated as hindus in Bist Doab have not formally converted to Sikhism this gives them a reason to assert a separate religio-political identity now that they have attained an equal socio-economic stature at least in the West. Although it is entirely based on them being the same caste as Ravidas as opposed to the Sikh identity that is religious in it's nature and also includes numerous castes and even Chamars in other regions of the state and despite the fact that it(10 gurus+the Adi granth as the last guru) has been the basis of Sikh religious order since the beginning of that faith. More over Ravidas himself never started a faith or religious order hence the titles used for him change by the region and language and even new ones are being added like the latest Guru or Shri Guru in Bist Doab. Therefore it represents only a Punjab or rather Bist Doab centric idea of a new title that does not represent the majority of Ravidasia communtiy in Northern India which far out numbers the more vocal and affluent Bist Doab Ravidasia/Chamar community which has more access to the media and international resources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.100.184.73 (talk) 06:29, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

User:GurDass had this to say, "my doubdt is: every Sant Mat Guru received this treatment, the title guru was removed from his name and the article was renamed. So, i think, the same shoud be apply to Ravidas. It does'nt change anything to me but maybe the same way of doing should be apply every time and not make differences." Should the word "Guru" be removed from the page title, since it's not actually part of his name? Also, perhaps this is a good time to talk about whether there's one or two s's in his name -- Ravidas or Ravidass, which is more common? Banaticus (talk) 15:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

thanks for help :-)

i see that in the meanwhile the name in infobox has become "Shri Guru Ravidass Maharaj Ji". In india you can add as respect so many titles that there is no end: shri hazur baba sant satguru ji maharaj ji.... I did not checked but there is some common rule also for christian saints? The title saint is not part of their name. If Guru Ravidass should remain the same, i will change the page of MY guru, Sirio Carrapa, to "Sant Satguru Sirio Carrapa".

Maybe somebody else can rename his guru as "The mighty supreme guru this and that" and this enciclopedy will become ridicolous ;-) --GurDass (talk) 18:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

i've seen that in Kabir page his name was just reverted from Sant Kabir to Kabir in infobox... the reason is the same! --GurDass (talk) 06:47, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia has no shortage of guidelines here. WP:COMMONNAME says that if he's widely referred to in English with the "Guru" attached, you keep it. Otherwise, it probably gets stripped - see WP:NAME, WP:NCP, WP:NCCL. The guideline for Indian clergy is not finalized but is at WP:NCIN; see Titles and Honorifics. I can't tell you what to do here because I don't know much about it, or even about Indian names, but I'm suspicious that saying simply "Ravidass" would not identify to people who you're talking about. Wnt (talk) 10:59, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Also Guru indicates a sense of respect and a better reference for the readers which can be taken forward, similarly Saints, However i am with you on not adding Satguru or Ji or Maharaj ji inside everywhere in the articles but as a name of the infobox and generally reffered to title we can have "Satguru Ravidass Maharaj ji" because this is largely acceptable as a name to whom it is referred to. And about Sant Kabir it is normally referred as Kabir. Also it makes no sense that because Sirio Carrapa cant be added with Guru title so Guru Ravidass must not, also similarly it will apply to Sikh Gurus and other Gurus. It is not about my Guru or your Guru or anything but how mostly the person or a guru or a sant is reffered to.Superiorfaither (talk) 11:24, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Guru (Devanagari गुरु) is a Sanskrit term for "teacher" or "master", particularly in Indian religions. The Hindu guru-shishya tradition is the oral tradition or religious doctrine or experiential wisdom transmitted from teacher to student. Guru Ravidas was a preacher, poet and is considered as a messenger of God by a very large community of people mainly Chamar in India.He should be called a guru because it is a honour. It's correct that a normal person cannot take the honour of being called as a Guru, but Ravidas was not a normal man. He is the root of a very big religion in India. The word Guru is used just to show respect to the pure and divine souls. The word Guru is used in many names where, actually the word Guru is not the part of name. For example the page Guru Nanak, the founder of sikhism religion has the name Guru in the title but actually guru is not the part of name. It's just a sign of respect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Singh0777 (talk • contribs) 18:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Sahib Shri Guru Ravidass ji has religious impact on around 25-30. Crore population of The Chamar/Jatav community in India He was our Guru Nobody has the right to interfere the other's religion. These are your myths planted to confuse innocent people Amar Singh Okk (talk) 21:40, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

The followers of Shri Guru Ravidass were warriors Like Baba Sangat Singh Ji (To whom Guru Gobind Singh gave his turban) Baba Jai Singh Ji Khalkatt Baba Bachitter singh ji Baba Mehtaab Singh ji(who killed Massa Rangarh) Modern days Dr BR AMBEDKAR (The Father Indian Constitution) Sahib Shri Kanshi Ram Ji

Amar Singh Okk (talk) 21:45, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

The followers of Shri Guru Ravidass were warriors Like Baba Sangat Singh Ji (To whom Guru Gobind Singh gave his turban) Baba Jai Singh Ji Khalkatt Baba Bachitter singh ji Baba Mehtaab Singh ji(who killed Massa Rangarh) Modern days Dr BR AMBEDKAR (The Father Indian Constitution) Sahib Shri Kanshi Ram Ji

Amar Singh Okk (talk) 21:47, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

You are misleading us You can read the verses of Meera Bai In which she called Shri Guru Ravidass Ji, '''''GURU'''''''' if You have any problem in renaming please contact the concerned authorities Amar Singh Okk (talk) 08:57, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Dates of life

This article is a little out-of-hand with dates of birth and death.

According to the body of text his age is anything from 70 to 126 (which they seem to be claiming 126 is correct).

The infobox gives his age as 151 (1377 AD - 1528 AD).

Someone needs to clarify all this supposition with some refs - mainly because none of them are referenced, apart from Schaller who says he was around 70 (which is eminently a much more believable age). Chaosdruid (talk) 16:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Notes

This article has gone a little haywire in many ways. The subheads no longer describe the randomly-scattered facts beneath them. The lede claims, without authority, that Ravidas founded a religion. The use of honorifics is ridiculous (and unsourced) and the change to the form "ravidaSS" is unwise since search engines show from 3 to 10 times more hits for the original "ravidas" - in fact, for all usages of the word "das" and for all similar transliterations this form is overwhelmingly more usual. And some of the descriptions of the subject's character are from extremely pro-POV sources. We want a sober, factual article, not a bloody hymn of worship, thanks. Finally, there is a very large number of errors of spelling and grammar. Redheylin (talk) 06:24, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

+1 --GurDass (talk) 10:17, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

I just did a lot of cleanup here. 2 sections were removed as blatant copyvio. The "death" section was entirely without references and contained no useful facts, just speculations from Believers, so that was removed as well. I made some fairly extensive revisions to the text in several places, mostly to clean up spelling and grammar, but also for language and tone; an encyclopedia article should be neutral in tone, not adulatory. Finally, I removed the honorifics and titles throughout, they aren't allowed at all, except that "guru" should probably be included once, with a link for explanation (but not used repeatedly as a title in the body of text). There is a lot that could still be improved, but this was at least a start. Doc Tropics 15:29, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Redheylin (talk) 03:44, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 01:49, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

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Guru Ravidass → Ravidas – Remove WP:HONORIFIC Guru and WP:COMMONNAME with single s. Britannica, The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism, Merriam-Webster's Encyclopedia of World Religions. Redtigerxyz ^Talk 09:55, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

• Support per both guidelines. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:46, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
• Strong support – as per proposal. (Though the article seems to need major rewriting.) --V2Blast (talk) 06:58, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
• Significant history at target. Dekimasuよ! 06:52, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Before editing you should know everything about Guru RAVIDASS ji..

Editing because I know He used to make shoes only

Hloo...Listen one another caste which belongs to lower caste (acc to India) (BATWALL-- WORKS WITH DEAD ANIMALS AND THEIR SKIN not CHAMAR caste remember it. thank you.... Æshish (talk) 07:20, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

One of the greatest saints of any time. He was a Mazhabi and the beloved of all castes and religions. A God in some sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.12.72.218 (talk) 20:34, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

The followers of Shri Guru Ravidass were warriors Like Baba Sangat Singh Ji (To whom Guru Gobind Singh gave his turban) Baba Jai Singh Ji Khalkatt Baba Bachitter singh ji Baba Mehtaab Singh ji(who killed Massa Rangarh) Modern days Dr BR AMBEDKAR (The Father Indian Constitution) Sahib Shri Kanshi Ram Ji Amar Singh Okk (talk) 22:07, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Study the history of Sahib Shri Guru Ravidass ji

Sahib Shri Guru Ravidass was one of the Buddhist known as Boddhisattava His writings are not of religious kind ,he gave the message of equality of the human mankind,. He encouraged his disciples to be the Ruler NOT Slaves, First go and study Shri guru ravidass instead of uploading fake sources Amar Singh Okk (talk) 22:11, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Why are You not respecting Religious sentiments of Ravidassia community???

You are continuously disrespecting the religious sentiments of a community whose population is around 25-30 crores in all over India Amar Singh Okk (talk) 09:12, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

This is very true. I'm editing Shri Guru Ravidas's Ji page and tried adding Guru or Satguru with their name. But edit reversed. Deepsandhi (talk) 03:57, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

It's humble request please don't mess up with a community

By continuously disrespecting the religious sentiments You are now given a last warning please don't disrespect the holy sentiments of Ravidassia community Amar Singh Okk (talk) 09:15, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Don't keep adding unsourced commentary or unreliably sourced content from blogs, which are not allowed in Wikipedia. Secondly, over usage of honorifics is not allowed, which you seem to be doing. Take Jesus, for example, which doesn't mention "Lord", etc in the lead. One mention of 'Guru' in the infobox is enough as per WP:NPOV. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:41, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Give respect to the religious sentiments of a community

Jai guru Dev Dhan Gurudev, jo bhole so nirbhay shri Guru Ravidass Maharaj ki jai Kattadchamarsofworld (talk) 15:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Changing the title of this Page to SHRI GURU RAVIDASS JI

There are crores of devotees of Guru Ravidass ji around the world., It's a request to please change the name of the title to SHRI GURU RAVIDASS JI. If you are not satisfied what I said,then you must refer to the Religious Verses of SANT MEERA bai.inwhich she called: """"GURU RAVIDASS MILE JAB POORE DHUR SE KALAM BHARI""" Thegreatchamars (talk) 15:38, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2019

SHRI GURU RAVIDASS JI MAHARAJ was not from Hindu.Hewas from the Buddhist religion,kindly give reliable information on the Page. Secondly change the Page's name to"""SHRI GURU RAVIDASS""" Therealchamarworld (talk) 10:16, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Have any reliable sources to back up the change? -- Alexf^(talk) 12:21, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Also if you want to change the title of an article please see WP:RM. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:56, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Shri Guru Raviidass was not any related to hinduism

In his verses he proclaimed that "i believe in equality of the human mankind" and at that time only religion that taught equality was BUDDHISM. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kattadchamarsofworld (talk • contribs) 08:01, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

You need to provide reliable sources. Please remember to sign your posts in Talk with four tildes at the end. -- Alexf^(talk) 12:27, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

@Kattadchamarsofworld Chetnakumar38 (talk) 15:26, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

SHRI GURU RAVIDASS WAS A BUDDHIST NOT ANY HINDU

SHRI GURU RAVIDASS WAS A BUDDHIST NOT ANY HINDU.HE WAS THE FOLLOWER OF BUDDHIST FAITH NOT HINDU. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kattadchamarsofworld (talk • contribs) 10:39, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Proofs how Shri Guru Ravidass ji was a scholar Buddhist not any kind of so hindu

In his Holy Amritbani he says ਬਨੁ ਦੇਖੇ ਉਪਜੈ ਨਹੀ ਆਸਾ ॥ ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਹੋਇ ਿਬਨਾਸਾ ॥ ਬਰਨ ਸਿਹਤ ਜੋ ਜਾਪੈ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ ਸੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਕੇਵਲ ਿਨਹਕਾਮੁ ॥੧॥ ਪਰਚੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਵੈ ਜਉ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਪਰਸੈ ਦੁਿਬਧਾ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਸੋ ਮੁਿਨ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਦੁਿਬਧਾ ਖਾਇ ॥ ਿਬਨੁ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਤਰ੍ੈ ਲੋਕ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਸੁਭਾਉ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ਕਰੈ ॥ ਕਰਤਾ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਅਨਭੈ ਰਹੈ ॥੨॥ ਫਲ ਕਾਰਨ ਫੂਲੀ ਬਨਰਾਇ ॥ ਫਲੁ ਲਾਗਾ ਤਬ ਫੂਲੁ ਿਬਲਾਇ ॥ ਿਗਆਨੈ ਕਾਰਨ ਕਰਮ ਅਿਭਆਸੁ ॥ ਿਗਆਨੁ ਭਇਆ ਤਹ ਕਰਮਹ ਨਾਸੁ ॥੩॥ ਿਘਰ੍ਤ ਕਾਰਨ ਦਿਧ ਮਥੈ ਸਇਆਨ ॥ """""""ਜੀਵਤ ਮੁਕਤ ਸਦਾ ਿਨਰਬਾਨ ॥ '''"''' You can see how Shri Guru Ravidass ji is teaching to achieve the highest state of buddhism i.e. NIRVANA. I have now proved you that he was a Buddhist Now you should also Prove how his holiness was so hindu.... Note here "ਨਾਮੁ" is the DHAMMA of Lord Buddha

It seems you do not understand Wikipedia's meaning of reliable sources. Your so called 'proofs' do not mean anything here, unless they are properly sourced. If you have any questions about how Wikipedia works, please ask at the Tea House. -- Alexf^(talk) 12:51, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Great Buddhist Guru Ravidass Ji Jai ho!!!!

Here the editor is giving false information that Sahib Shri Guru Ravidass was Hindu. But he never ever said he was Hindu. In his holy Amritbani he says everyone is equal, and in those days , the only religion that taught equality was Mainly BUDDHISM in India. Kattadchamarsofworld (talk) 06:21, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Please stop giving false information

The editor is continuously giving wrong and illogical information about Shri Guru Ravidass Ji.. By using false sources the editor is misguiding the world. Kattadchamarsofworld (talk) 06:23, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Give Proofs how you say he was hindu

Give me any verse in which he says he was Hindu. Kattadchamarsofworld (talk) 06:26, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

March 2021

@The IPs and new users. Do not use honorifics like "Guru" and "Ji" in the article since those contravene our policies of WP:NCIN and MOS:HONORIFICS. Second, do not change the subjects birth/death date. It is 1450 and 1520 as per the sources The Study of Hinduism, page 229, "Raidas aka Ravidas (ca 1450-1520)" and Holy People of the World: A Cross-cultural Encyclopedia, Volume 3, page 724. "Raidas or Ravidas (c. 1450-1520)". Discuss here if you have issues. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 February 2022

2402:3A80:101C:C2B2:F601:BF37:43B6:D835 (talk) 01:18, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Shri guru ravidass ji born in 1377 , not in 1450 And the age of guru ravidass ji about 151years old

So please these changes on Wikipedia Because Wikipedia's information is wrong

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SpinningCeres 01:32, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Why Ravidas please respect 🙏🏻 Guru ravidas ji maharaj fill it. 🙏🏻

🙏🏻 101.0.55.93 (talk) 15:06, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

No. It is not allowed here. See Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Indic)#Titles_and_honorifics. You can do it in your blog and Ravidas ji website. Venkat TL (talk) 15:12, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:37, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Move page from ravidas to guru ravidas

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301913823_Guru_Ravidass_Prophet_of_Dalit_Liberation==

In the link you can find details about guru ravidas. please call them guru because meaning of "guru" is "teacher" someone who enlightens our mind. so please move to guru ravidas.https://shrigururavidasji.com/site/articles_books/ravidasji/ravidas_a_b_qa.php Mayank.teenu (talk) Mayank.teenu (talk) 19:28, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

"Guru" is an honorific, not his name, so we don't use it in page titles. Dāsānudāsa (talk) 10:36, 30 January 2023 (UTC)