Talk:Guide to the Free World

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A fact from Guide to the Free World appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 27 October 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the founder of the Guide to the Free World, helping people leave Russia after its invasion of Ukraine, said she was told: "It's good that you get out of Russia, but a pity that you won't be shot"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Guide to the Free World.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:48, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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Source: https://www.the-village.ru/people/opyt/lobanovskaya
Article title, in Russian: «Хорошо, что ты свалишь из России, но жаль, что тебя не расстреляют» Авторка «Гайда по релокации из РФ» — о том, как почувствовала себя экстремисткой
In English: “It’s good that you leave Russia, but it’s a pity that you won’t be shot” The author of the "Guide to relocation from the Russian Federation" - about how she felt herself become an extremist
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Gimli (Middle-earth) ‎
- Comment: The Gimli review was complex, with review edit conflict. Hopefully it still counts as you can see I put real effort into it! If not, say and I'll do another.

Moved to mainspace by GRuban (talk). Self-nominated at 20:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Interesting, sadly needed project, on plenty of good sources, foreign sources accepted AGF, and thank you for translating titles! No copyvio obvious. - I accept the review for qpq. - I'm am not yet happy with the hook. We are on the Main page, out of context, I fear that we have to say its about Russians in unfree conditions due to the war. It could be anything anywhere without that, and I think we should address the problem, not go for the attention of any sensation-seekers. Unless you convince me otherwise. - I have a few questions regarding the article, which mean just questions, nothing in the way of DYK yes or no.

The basic question is should the founder's biography be within this article or separate? Let's imagine she does something great ten years from now. Assuming they stay together:
The founder's name will be a redirect and has therefore to appear in the lead, bold.
I'd give it an infobox, to get faster to understanding what it is.
I guess her bio until the chat should come sooner, such as Background.
I'd add more dates (month or even day) to 2022 events, especially in the lead. Now we know when the invasion began, and when the mobilisation was, but again, let's think ten years from now.
I don't need more than 3 refs for one fact.
I like ref numbers sorted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:59, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All done except for #4, moving the bio up. I don't want her bio to overshadow the Guide itself, even though it is an interesting bio. I started writing this about the Guide, and was honestly surprised to find so much about her - that single fashion article about her wardrobe was published in something like 10 different languages! I guess she might qualify for an independent article of her own, since she did get that press before she did the Guide, but I don't know if I want to be the one defending it in an AFD, since the "heavy hitter" sources - Guardian, NY Times, Sveriges Radio - are really all about the Guide, and the stuff about her before the Guide are numerous but kind of fluffy. She was a marketer, after all. --GRuban (talk) 19:16, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for explaining, and I can follow. Now what about the hook? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:49, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment since it's not used as a quote, the grammar needs sorting. Johnbod (talk) 16:50, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt and Johnbod: Adding more detail about the Guide and the War to the hook comes up against the "fewer than about 200 characters" length limit, but I'll try. How about

ALT1A: ... that the founder of the Guide to the Free World helping Russians leave their country after the invasion of Ukraine was told: it was good that she was leaving but a pity that she won't be shot? (193 characters) Or maybe "wouldn't" instead of "won't", for 196 characters - is that part of the grammar that Johnbod was worried about? We could remove the last two "that"s to save 10 more characters, but that might again hit Johnbod's grammar worries - does it? I'm also very willing to hear other grammar sorting suggestions. --GRuban (talk) 20:06, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aha -

ALT1B: ... that the founder of the Guide to the Free World, helping people leave Russia after its invasion of Ukraine, was told: it's good that you're leaving Russia, but a pity that you won't be shot? (189 characters) Or maybe remove the last repetition of Russia.--GRuban (talk) 20:19, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, how about this - no different content, so I can approve?

those 3, striking the first because of Johnbod's concern. ALT1c shows that the founder is a woman, which may be wanted or not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:32, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How about ALT1D: "... that the founder of the Guide to the Free World, helping people leave Russia after its invasion of Ukraine, was told: it's good that she leave, but a pity that she wouldn't be shot?"

I'm afraid it can't be "if", but I do like returning the "she". I also would prefer not to quote just the last three words of the statement, as that implies those words are somehow more of a quote than the others, and they're all just a translation. It's the best possible short translation (even if I do say so myself) but like most translations not quite 100% equivalent. (The main issues are that "свалишь из" isn't quite "leave" it's more literally "dump out of", and only "leave" in the context; not a pleasant word, but not actually an obscenity. Meanwhile "расстреляют" is a stronger word than "be shot" it carries a strong implication of "be shot by firing squad" or at best "be very thoroughly shot".) --GRuban (talk) 02:33, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

very good - I just thought that in wikivoice it had to be "would not"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:03, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And today I learned MOS:CONTRACTIONS seems to agree with you!

ALT1E: "... that the founder of the Guide to the Free World, helping people leave Russia after its invasion of Ukraine, was told: it's good that she will leave, but a pity that she will not be shot?" --GRuban (talk) 15:25, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

approve that also, however like d better, and as this is not article space, it might be permitted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:20, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]