Talk:Gringo/Archive 2008

"In Central America, the word is not pejorative, and sometimes is used to American expatriates to refer to themselves. "

In Central America, the term most certainly IS pejorative, and is wielded in exactly the same way "spic" might be against a Mexican.

• Your affirmation is false. In Central America the term IS NOT pejorative, and Central Americans and USA citizens use it in amicable conversation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.17.207.205 (talk) 20:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Please source your claim which I find bizarre, 18:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

That some expatriates use it does not prove its innocuousness. Many blacks refer to themselves as "niggers," but this does little to render this term innocent.BulldogPete 04:01, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a mistake to assume that all words which may on occasion be used despectively are as negative as "nigger". For example, "bitch" is one such word in English: possibly derogatory, though not necessarily so, but I think you'll agree it's not as strong an insult as "nigger". My impression is that foreigners tend to interpret local slang in an excessively negative way, disproportionate with how those terms are actually used by native speakers. FilipeS 14:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Let's be honest: it's not a term of endearment. And the writer's assertion that it is "not pejorative" is certainly a matter of opinion -- and clearly a matter to be debated -- and something that does not belong in an article here stated as fact. BulldogPete 02:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree that whether a word is pejorative is a matter of opinion. That sort of thing can be checked in a dictionary. That said, I am not particularly familiar with Central America. You may be right that the word is invariably an insult there. It isn't so everywhere, though. FilipeS 02:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

lol. It is not, IMO, used exclusively as an insult in Central America, mas bien its just used as a descriptive word, like black not nigger. I await some sources as the only way to resolve this, SqueakBox 18:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

While I was in Honduras, as a "gringo", I heard it used both perjoratively, and amicably. Much more often it was used in a friendly way.

Sure, and I have a book where an old Southern farmer says "Now the niggers got liquored up every night -- now, I don't mean nothing by that term." So he used "nigger" "amicably," but I think this would do little to comfort blacks who heard the conversation.BulldogPete 12:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

You know central America? The difference is that "gringos dont feel either threatened or racially abused by this term any more than blacks do in the US if they are called blacks, Afro-Americans etc, and to compare Gringo to nigger is an unfair comparison, SqueakBox 17:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

The assumption that "gringo" is just like "nigger" does seem to be a common ethnocentric prejudice in Americans. Or perhaps it's that gringo is indeed like "nigger" in American culture. But not so elsewhere. All cultures are not equal. FilipeS 17:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

As an anthropologist, I must state that words can be used in various contexts with various intentions and meanings. We should not allow a single meaning of such "slang" to be canonized by a single context. In Yucatan (Mexico), for instance, there is a difference between urban and rural contexts. In the rural areas, among Maya farmers and hunters, gringo is used as the Maya replacement for "Chel" (light skinned person, no matter what nationality). But in the urban areas, it is used as a prejorative term for Americans.Chunchucmil 00:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Listen Im puertorican and I have been reading this article since the beging and frankly Im getting pissed off at all the people not knowing what the word gringo even means and puting there comment in.it doesnt mean anything more than a person of non latin american decent. In puerto rico there is a ton of people all of diffrent colors shapes and sizes somtimes even in the same family. In latin america racism is nearly non-existant because of this and I have a brother who is the blackest person you could ever meet and yet I call him gringo. Am I being racist to him ? no. I think all of you who take it offensive are being ignorant. Latin america is not the U.S where words like Spic and Nigger exist when was the last time you went to latin america and saw a cleaning product named after interratial couples. Youll never see Gringo and nigger on the shelves of a latin bodega.

Gringo

Gringo is only for USA people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.24.17.233 (talk) 01:07, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Source for somewhat more credible etymology than this article presently gives

See the following new paper article which traces the term back to 1750 spain:

http://www.marrder.com/htw/jan97/editorial.htm

--Rafaelgarcia (talk) 01:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Isn't that article already in the references, or the external links? FilipeS (talk) 20:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Is it Pejorative? What are its etymologies?

The word gringo is usually used to refer to U.S. citizens, allthough it may only be used to refer to them, it all depends on the way its used, it can be pejorative or not it all depends on the intention. I would say it is used to refer to U.S. citizens only, at least in Colombia and Panama.

Concerning its etymology, various linguists and etymologers classify the words origins as unkown,the story "El Matadero" does use the word, so it dates back from the "Green Grow..." song, i have also heard another incorrect hypothesis, in Panama, the origin of the word is accredited to the nationalistic movements which called for greens to go home and later turned to Green go home, and then Gringo. it is easily proved incorrect by the book "El Matadero" theory but since other false theories are acredited so should this one be referenced on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.140.201.190 (talk) 22:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

"Hispanophones disagree whether or not gringo is derogatory."

I'm not making any substantive edits at this point as I haven't (yet) read all the talk page history to see what has been discussed. But the above quote in the article intro is a bit odd. I understand that Spanish speakers are not (or not all of them at all times) intending to use the word in a derogatory manner. But surely the more saliant point is that norteamericanos like myself often do in fact find it offensive (at least in certain contexts). Aside from referencing a dictionary (which is also a bit strange - do Hispanophones routinely consult English dictionaries for definitions of Spanish words?) the article totally fails to acknowledge our taking offense. CAVincent (talk) 03:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Well if some North Americans take it as offensive you need to find some nice reliable references to back up that assertion, if we can have that and it can be seen as a pretty common misconception then we can indeed add something to this effect to the article. Thanks, SqueakBox 03:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

And another reference should be added to the effect that many norteamericanos are not offended by the word. FilipeS (talk) 20:40, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

If you have any doubt that some of us take offense, I will simply refer you to this talk page and its examples of norteamericanos who find it offensive. This truth is obvious, regardless of intent. As for reliable sources, I think the multiple dictionaries cited are good enough. And FilipeS, if you want to find a reliable source saying that there are "many" norteamericanos who are not offended under any circumstances, I think you have a difficult task but we can certainly add what you find. CAVincent (talk) 21:24, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

This page is not enough. Thanks, SqueakBox

Something's missing

Um, in the section on "Meanings", organized by region and country, is there a reason for omitting the largish Spanish-speaking country north of Guatemala? CAVincent (talk) 03:51, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Two little deatils

I edited the first paragraph (However, Hispanophones disagree on whether or not gringo is derogatory), adding what is corroborated by the DRAE. It's important to denote that that's not just an impression or common attitude by the latin people. For the hispanic and latin people the word 'gringo' it's not pejorative, and the Real Academia de la Lengua Española set that in its dictionary.

The other thing I edited is related to "gringolandia". I deleted the "citation needed" tag, because just there is no need of citations. If you search in internet for that word, you'll see that it's a word used in all Latin America as a normal way.--A. Dupin (talk) 17:05, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I changed the DRAE reference slightly, as at least in the online version it does not explicitly say it isn't derogatory (not that I would expect them to bother denying a false interpretation). But definitely very useful to cite it in the intro. I wonder, does anyone have an older hard copy version to compare to the online definition? And I agree, the fact tag under gringolandia looked spurious. CAVincent (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 00:22, 15 October 2008 (UTC).