Talk:Great Plains wolf

Deleted last paragraph about "extinct" variety; sources tag

After converting it into proper grammar through several edits and reading it in context, I decided that the last paragraph about an extinct wolf of the same name contradicted the main body of the article, and just deleted it. The article is also poorly cited and I'm adding the corresponding tag now. Matt Gies 01:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

So what are the non Occidentalis/Arctos/lycaon wolves on the range maps?

See this range map showing nubilus as an extant subspecies. Should it be recoloured as occidentalis or something? Mariomassone (talk) 13:56, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

nubilus in blue

This issue is across a number of North American wolves. I have it covered under Subspecies of Canis lupus#Taxonomy where I state:

In 1995, the American mammologist Robert M. Nowak analyzed data on the skull morphology of wolf specimens from around the world. For North America, he proposed that there were only five subspecies of gray wolf. These include a large toothed arctic wolf named C. l. arctos, a large wolf from Alaska and western Canada named C. l. occidentalis, a small wolf from southeast Canada named C. l. lycaon, a small wolf from the southwest named C. l. baileyi, and a moderate-sized wolf that was originally found from Texas to Hudson Bay and from Oregon to New Foundland named C. l. nubilus.[18][19] This proposal was not reflected in the taxonomic classification of Canis lupus subspecies in Mammal Species of the World (2005).[11]

Nowak had "recycled" the name nubilus for this special purpose of his. Then we had Chambers 2012 "An account of the taxonomy of North American wolves from morphological and genetic analyses" come along and repropose Nowak's arrangement, which some editors supported at that time and made some changes to some wolf articles - especially the Red wolf. Chambers is a disputed primary source, whereas MSW3 is a well-regarded secondary source. I would go with MSW3 - as required by WikiProject Mammals - however I do not want to start an edit war. I am not sure what the solution is, but we have an article titled Subspecies of Canis lupus with a list of 27 North American subspecies which does not match the 5 subspecies in the Nowak-based map. I have recently audited all of the North American wolves and amended them to separate subspecies in their Taxonomy sections as per MSW3, rather than the Chambers view that many of them once reflected. Their proposed range maps I have left alone. There exists a sketch by Goldman back in the 1940s showing where all of the North American subspecies once resided, which appears in Chambers page 8 Figure 2 (available online). Another version appears in Mech "Wolf" in Figure 7 (may need to flick a few pages hereWilliam Harris • (talk) • 10:37, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

A first step might be to divide the listing in Subspecies of Canis lupus into extant and extinct; then we focus on what to do with the extant. William Harris • (talk) • 10:39, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I have taken the next step with the Subspecies of Canis lupus article and included the Goldman 1944 distribution map - let us see how this is played out. William Harris • (talk) • 09:41, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

C. l . nubilus is NOT extinct . . .

Canis lupus nubilus is NOT extinct . . . extirpated in the lower 48 states, perhaps, but thriving in Canada. The Canadian government's species status page for C. l. nubilus is located at https://wildlife-species.canada.ca/species-risk-registry/species/speciesDetails_e.cfm?sid=607#ot18. Its COSEWIC status is "Not at Risk" and COSEWIC says "Populations are stable, widespread and include large numbers of individuals." Its current range is located in British Columbia. Gaelwolf (talk) 23:14, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Another drive-by editor who did not bother to read the second paragraph of the Taxonomy section, but is willing tell us all about this wolf. Additionally, the Canadian government is not a taxonomic authority. William Harristalk 09:57, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Not Extinct: They are also STILL in US at a Bridger, Montana wolf sanctuary (https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Wolf-Haven-acquires-McCleery-Wolf-Foundation-in-Montana.html?soid=1114967834266&aid=QZwR-51dn6Y). Also see http://mccleerywolves.com/. Our family was from Kane, PA - the location of McLeery's original sanctuary. The story of his rescuing these wolves from extinction was widely known and reported in the region for decades, so I am shocked to see the claim they are extinct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.117.179.99 (talk) 16:55, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

All you need do is provide expert WP:RELIABLE WP:SECONDARY sources to support this information and it will be included. All that we have is one website making a claim that it has acquired the stock and assets of the "McCleery Buffalo Wolf Foundation" - at no time did it claim that these ARE buffalo wolves but did state that these wolves will no longer be bred - and another self-published one that is no longer operational. William Harristalk 20:43, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

References