Talk:Great Mosque of Taza

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Hi @R Prazeres, I believe it would be more beneficial to address the points here instead of undoing all of my edits.

The name cannot be in Arabic as "الجامع الكبير"; instead, the title will be "Great Mosque." For all mosques we add the city name beside the name so that the reader knows. The ruler Almohad is important to me, as we can gain an idea, since the Almohads had many rulers.

The information about the chandelier was true. I agree that it wasn't in the source. My point was not to falsify what the source is saying but to add information since both the Marinids and the Zayyanides were in competition and both inspired each other. They both gifted both the Taza and Tlemcen mosques with chandeliers. Regards

Riad Salih (talk) 19:43, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Riad Salih, thanks for your comment. I don't care strongly about the minor changes to the lead, but they appear redundant to me:

The point of MOS:LEADLANG is not to literally translate the title of the article, but to provide the local non-English name, which is simply "الجامع الكبير" (or equivalent). There's no need to translate "of Taza" as the article is clearly about Taza; similar to how Kasbah Mosque, Marrakesh and Kasbah Mosque, Tunis are simply called "جامع القصبة".
It doesn't matter if Abd al-Mu'min is mentioned in the lead or not, as the lead is only a summary and his role is stated in literally the first line right after this. I don't mind if it is added here or not, so feel free to re-add this detail if you like, but it's just repetitive.

More importantly, regarding the chandelier, there's nothing in the sources to support your change from "the largest" to "one of the largest", which was the main problem with your edit. There's also no reason to mention the other chandelier at all; the sources do not make any particular connection between these two objects, so there's no reason for Wikipedia to do so. (By contrast: the maqsura dome here is explicitly compared with that of Tlemcen, because the sources also make this comparison.) R Prazeres (talk) 22:23, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the Arabic translation, I find it important to have a thorough discussion. It's not just about the literal translation, but also about ensuring the accuracy of the translation. For instance, "جامع الكبير" is a common term for many mosques, and searching for it in Arabic could be challenging for readers. Hence, using the Arabic name as it appears in Arabic sources can be highly beneficial. Regarding Abd al-Mu'min, I agree with adding it, especially considering the historical context.

The chandelier in Tlemcen and Taza, deserves a detailed discussion, but unfortunately, the Arabic sources I have read aren't ringing a bell for me right now, so I can't delve deeper into it. I'll make sure to fact-check it myself. Riad Salih (talk) 18:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've re-added mention of Abd al-Mu'min in the lead, per your preference ([1]). I might take the opportunity to expand the lead with other details too, since it is a bit short.

As for the chandelier, I am actually going to add a mention of this too. I had another look at this source (not cited here but I used it for the Tlemcen chandelier) and it mentions rather conveniently other examples similar to the Taza chandelier, in both Tlemcen and Fes. So I think that's due a brief mention here. Though it doesn't change the claim about being the Taza specimen being the largest surviving of its kind, per Jonathan Bloom ([2]).

For the Arabic, I don't see how it's a problem for Arabic readers to search for جامع الكبير if that is how the mosque is known in Arabic (if it isn't, then that's another issue). The fact that many other mosques are known by the same name really only confirms it. It's obviously up to readers/researchers to narrow down their searches to Taza in particular, as they would be for any other name that can designate more than one person, object, event, etc (hence why we have disambiguation on Wikipedia). If there are reliable sources that give a different formal name for the mosque, then please do bring them up here and we can revise this as needed. Thanks, R Prazeres (talk) 19:39, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]