Talk:Great Coates

Clarify

The Barnardiston family (medieval aristocracy) says they had the manor from sometime in the reign of Edward II of England 1307-1327, but elswhere John Sandale is said to have the manor in 1313, so some extra information must be missing.

Also in Abraham de la Pryme a building on the moated site of the manor is recorded as being a religious house, which suggests Sandale.

It's not clear if there were two manors, or if it changed hands.Prof.Haddock (talk) 17:20, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

• Did some looking into it... Proceedings of the Suffolk Institute of Archaeology, Volume 4 has, on page 123, that Kedington manor and advowson "were granted by Roger de Newmarch to John Sandale, clerk, 5th Edward II" and Sandale "immediately regranted them to Margery Wyleghby and John her son, and the heirs of his body, with remainder to the right heirs of said Margery, she being the widow of Thomas de Barnardiston (whose mother appears to have been a Newmarche); therefore it is probable that although Margery Wylegby brought the Manor of Great Cotes, and large possessions to the Barnardiston family...". So John Sandale transferred Keddington manor to Margery (nee Willoughby) in 1312 (5th year of Edward II) and it is 'probable' that the same thing happened, at some point, with Great Coates but documents are yet to be found.

On the next page (124) it says "John, the son of Margery, is the first person of thirty-eight assessed in the Lincolnshire Subsidy Roll for the parish of Great Cotes, 1st Edward III, as "Johē de Kedyngton, * xiiis. ivd." - this is in the context of the Barnardiston's owning the manor of Great Coates so it suggests this subsidy roll is the first evidence. The date, '1st Edward III' is first year of the reign of Edward III of England in 1327. There's an Inquisition Post-mortem (#463) for a 'Richard de Fonteneye alias De Founteneye' on 7 Edward II (1315) which states he held the 'meadow of John de Sandale' in Great Coates for a fee of 6 shillings a year. Doesn't mention the manor as a whole but indicates Sandale still holds some land there. John Sandale died in 1319. Either while Sandale was at the end of his life or at death, we don't know when, Great Coates goes from Sandale to Margery and/or her son?

Then there's this from 1307/8 in the National Archives (original isn't digitised so its just the record summary): "William Tuchet to grant land in Great Coates by Grimsby, and the advowson of the church there, to the abbot and convent of Tupholm, retaining the manors of Coates and Bureth (Lincoln), and of Tawell (Glouc). Lincoln. Glouc." Tuchet or Touchet (possibly Baron Tuchet) is granted free warren at Cotes in 1298 (the index of the Charter Rolls identifies this as Great Coates). There are some family trees of the Tuchets/Touchets suggesting they were in Great Coates from the early 1200s but they're not WP:RS. And 1812 edition of The Peerage of England repeats the free warren grant but doesn't mention them in Great Cotes earlier.

So, Tuchet/Touchet until at least 1307, Sandale has it by 1313 and still has some part of it in 1315 and dies 1319. John Barnardiston has the manor in 1327 and it is 'probable' it went from Sandale to his mother and him, at an unknown date, as Kedington did in 1312?

OK thanks. It looks like there is no worrying contradiction. So:

• Manor was Tuchet's in 1307 (and Free warren from 26th of Edw I = 1272+25 = ~1298 , so likely then too) (and likely before back to at least 1200)
• Land and advoson of church to "abbot and convent of Tupholm" 1307, but Tuchet retains manor of [Great] Cotes
• Sandale (d.1319) obtains the manor sometime between 1307 and 1313
• Barnardiston family from Margery Wylegby (widow of) (after 1327, and likely from Sandale, as she had previously had land from him, date unknown but should be 1319 or before)

Prof.Haddock (talk) 17:30, 28 August 2014 (UTC)