Talk:Grandiose delusions/Archives/2012

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was page not moved. @harej 09:11, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

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Grandiose delusions → Grandiosity — Grandiosity has a broader meaning than grandiose delusions and not just associated with being delusional. Grandiosity in DSM-IV is a symptom of delusional, narcissistic, bipolar (manic) and possibly schizophrenia. The bipolar sense of the word is already mentioned in Grandiose delusions. I think Grandiose also needs to be set up as a redirect to Grandiosity.--Penbat (talk) 10:46, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

• The idiomatic term is delusions of grandeur. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:19, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

  The intro for this article starts "Grandiose delusions or delusions of grandeur....". Somebody chose "Grandiose delusions" in preference to "Delusions of grandeur" as the default name for this article. In my view, there should be redirects from "Grandiose delusions" and "Delusions of grandeur" to "Grandiosity" as the idiomatic terminology would be included in "Grandiosity". So in my view the idiomatic meaning should be covered but it is the scientific meaning that is most important. Using "Grandiose delusions" and "Delusions of grandeur" as the title would also be confusing as from the scientific point of view, grandeur isnt necessarily delusional. --Penbat (talk) 19:34, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose grandiosity, because it's not what the word means: the OED defines it as the quality of being grandiose, which is "Characterized by formal stateliness; often in disparaging sense: Aiming at an effect of grandeur, pompous. " Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:09, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

  You are completely missing my point. Grandiosity or being grandiose is a major symptom of several diverse psychiatric disorders (as defined in DSM-IV). The significance of this is far more important than the vague idiomatic definition in OED. In any case the OED definition you quoted didnt include the word "delusions" so that supports my view instead of yours. From the psychiatric point of view, grandiosity isnt necessarily delusional. --Penbat (talk) 07:00, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose - if the article is to be about psychiatric symptom then as 'delusion of grandeur' (I would prefer this as the formal name, vs the adjective/noun description of 'grandiose delusions' in much same way we usually refer to "mycocardial ischaemia" rather than "ischaemic myocardium"), whereas 'grandiosity' is not a mental illness but may encompanse more of personality traits (ie narcassitic tendency of self-importantance or self-over-valuation). The term grandiosity is not used in psychiatric speak that I encounter - see wording at Schizophrenia Symptoms section "Diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia (USA criteria)", or Medscape search results, Medscape Schizophrenia. PubMed hists 22 "delusions of grandeur" (mostly seems hits re schizophrenia), 46 "Grandiose delusions" (seem hits for schizophrenia and mania) and 216 for "grandiosity" (mixture of hits but mostly for articles addressing narcissistic personality rather than schizophrenia or hypomania). So depends what one wants to be considering. I suspect the distinction warrents separate articles of Delusion of grandeur and Grandiosity, with disambig hatnotes pointing both ways. David Ruben ^Talk 02:36, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

  Another person who opposes yet gives more ammunition for my view. References in Pubmed are nearly all for grandiosity rather than grandiose delusions. I always said that grandiosity or grandiose delusions was just a symptom (but an important one) of various psychiatric conditions but not a condition in itself. I also said that in some cases the grandiosity is considered delusional. It totally absurd to have the current situation where "grandiosity" currently redirects to "grandiose delusions" which is a specialized form of grandiosity. Is the pope Catholic ? --Penbat (talk) 09:56, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

  You misinterpret my intension - I think the terms are different, and not one a subset of the other. It's akin saying paranoia should be included within the wider topic of cautiousness: the latter is a personality trait, the former is an irrational psychaiatric symptom - assuming you don't believe all those opposing really are part of the medical cabal :-) Solution I think is to create that distinct 'grandiosity' article rather than it being a redirect to here. David Ruben ^Talk 20:57, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I am half convinced by what you are saying but am wondering if there is much of a distinction between grandiosity and grandiose delusions, or whether grandiose delusions is just a fusion of grandiosity and happening to be delusional at the same time. See:

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/narcissisticpd.htm

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/schiz.htm

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/delusion.htm

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/path/grandiosity.htm

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/path/delusionofgrandeur.htm

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Half a sentence

"Also, Smith, Freeman et al. have noted that [3]" and thats where the last sentence stops. What was supposed to be there? It seems a very odd halting point. 74.132.249.206 (talk) 16:38, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Sample Individuals

It would be interesting to include a number of individuals who suffered greatly from this mental dysfunction and detail some aspects of their expressed behaviors. That screamingly insane megalomaniac L. Ron Hubbard springs instantly to mind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Damotclese (talk • contribs) 23:12, 30 March 2012 (UTC)