Talk:Grand Duchy of Flandrensis

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

no consensus, September 11, 2013, see discussion.
delete, May 2, 2009, see discussion.

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Politics

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Antarctica

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Explanation

Distinguished Administrators,

In 2009, the article with this name has been deleted from Wikipedia. While I never saw the original version, what I would like to point is that nowadays the significance of Flandrensis is clearly proved by many references in magazines, newspapers and even television, provided in this article, which is simply a translation of the Russian one: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81 As you may see, this article exists for a rather significant period of time, and is considered as valuable enough to remain in the Russian sector, widely-known for very strict policies. Now, I would like to ask the following: does the article, which significance is clearly proved, deserve deletion only because three years ago a completely other version has been created, which didn't include the references provided in this one? I think no. And before quickly deleting it again, please take at least a basic look to the references and links provided. Sincerely. Escargoten (talk) 15:58, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This micronation has a lot of independent sources from a wide number of international publications. It should stay. Qwertyuiop1994 (talk) 16:11, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Currently I write an article about Flandrensis on the Dutch Wikipedia (see my sandbox). I will update this page about Flandrensis by removing some information because it isn't mentioned in reliable sources, and add extra sources from the Belgian media, this mont three Belgian newspapers (Het Belang van Limburg, Gazet van Antwerpen and Het Nieuwsblad) publishes articles about this micronation (see website of Flandrensis for copies of those articles) and also on Radio 1 (Belgium). I will remove some photos and replace them by photos that has been published in the newspaper. --Lyam Desmet (talk) 12:57, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That article in Dutch has been removed 5 times and is currently (June 2015) not there. gidonb (talk) 12:53, 16 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, a difference in policy and some prejudices toward the phenomenon of micronationalism in general by some moderators ("micronationalism is a joke"). The only micronations on the Dutch wikipedia are almost all from the the book "Lonely Planet guide to home-made nations" (2006) and outdated. Unfortunately, but I focus now on micronational related articles and documentation in the Anglophone and Francophone sector. --Lyam Desmet (talk) 19:29, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Update 1/09/2012

I add two sources to the article. One source is an article in the Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad, a short version of the article has also been published on the website of the newspaper (click here). The other source was an interview on the flemish radio Radio 2 (Belgium). --Lyam Desmet (talk) 19:08, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Update September 2013

This week I will update the article and add some information and photos. The source of the new information is a recent article written by journalist Tom Gheeraert in the Flemish newspaper "Het Wekelijks Nieuws" and a new book about micronations by photograph Leo Delafontaine. I also asked permission to use some photos who are published in some newspapers who were already mentioned on the page of Flandrensis.--Lyam Desmet (talk) 15:09, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

something went wrong with the upload of the bills of 20 and 50 flandri, they are both the same images and it doesn't work on Wikimedia Commons to reupload the file --Lyam Desmet (talk) 18:13, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Update May 2014

I add another source to the article and a new website: an article in the French "Le Jeu de l'Oie: La Revue Internationale de Sciences – Po Lille" (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeu_de_l%27Oie_%28revue%29) --Lyam Desmet (talk) 15:24, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Update June 2014

I add another source from the French magazine Rue 89, written by journalist Robin Prudent --Lyam Desmet (talk) 11:26, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Intro on offcial website: http://rue89.nouvelobs.com/2014/06/12/envie-detre-chef-aussi-cree-micronation-dix-lecons-252895 Images (11) of the article can be found on the facebookpage of the micronation.

Update September 2014

I add two extra newspapers: Het Laatste Nieuws from Belgium and Le Journal du Dimanche from France. I also restore a link and undone an update from another user (possible someone involved in the micronation?): on this article I only accept information that had been mentioned in reliable sources --Lyam Desmet (talk) 16:23, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Update October 2014

I found a reference about Flandrensis on the website of the Thelegraph in their list of 'Ten bizarre micronations" (dated in May 2014). On 23 september the founder of Flandrensis was a guest and the micronation was the theme of a show on the Belgian television 'Een'. --Lyam Desmet (talk) 12:04, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Extra update: complete article about the elections of the micronation in belgian local newspaper (West-Flanders) and a reference of the territorial conflict in a Russian newspaper --Lyam Desmet (talk) 17:46, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Update January 2015

An English translation on v.7 News (Russian world news) from an interview in the Russian magazine Apparat with professor Alastair Bonnett of the University of Newcastle. On November 28 professor Bonnet visited Moscow and gave a lection on micronations. Link: http://v7news.com/5-steps-to-create-your-own-micronations-apparat/

--Lyam Desmet (talk) 13:39, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Update October 2015

The micronation was one of the guests of the Polination conference in Italy this summer. I found one English, an Italian and 2 German articles about the conference and Flandrensis. --Delle89 (talk) 13:29, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Environment treaty

This micronation is described as a political simulation and a cultural organisation, but what about the environmental aspect of it? In found on their website: "Finally our most important goal, we are concerned about the global warming and its impact on our world and life. Until 2048 Antarctica is protected against greedy countries that only want the mineral sources of the white continent. Human pollution and the barbaric hunting on animals are a great danger to the flora and fauna in Antarctica! It is our goal to warn and inform people about the importance of the white continent and to support Antarctic organizations worldwide. We strongly believe that Antarctica should remain a natural preserve only available for scientific research well beyond the expiration of the Antarctic Treaty. Therefore the claims of Flandrensis are a symbolic statement to the international community: our land is untouched by humanity and it is only inhabited by its animals: we want it to remain as such!" After some research about the conference in Italy I found out that the participants signed an Environment Treaty as a precursor of the Climate Conference COP21 later in Paris this year? Is there any press coverage about this because their view on their Antarctic claims are quite interesting? --Delle89 (talk) 14:03, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

All information on the current page is not up-to-date with the current situation of the micronation, I only used information that I found in newspapers, magazines, books, etc. and not from their website. The political simulation and cultural organization was mentioned by its founder in an interview, so far I know I don't have any reliable source about the environmental goals. I only have the blog of Prof. Chris Roth who was a guest on the last micronational conference in Italy. If you find some source I would agree to add it to the article. --Lyam Desmet (talk) 13:11, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Today in my mailbox http://brusselstimes.com/magazine2/4653/springtime-of-micronations-spearheaded-by-belgian-grand-duke-niels There is a lot of information in this article, I will update the page and look also to integrate some in pages of other micronations --Delle89 (talk) 19:51, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nobility

I've read the book "Le business des vanités : enquête sur les arnaques à la noblesse". The book is about fake nobility and scam and the author mention several micronations like Aurecania and Hutt River, the part about Flandrensis is surprisingly positive (one of the few positive and humoristic ways to get a title of nobility) and explained their motivation for a monarchy. When I read discussions on Wikipedia I noticed a lot of prejudices and misunderstandings about the subject of micronational nobility --Delle89 (talk) 22:36, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Update January 2016

My new source is an article in The Brussels Times. This journalist visited some micronations and conferences and even interviewed academics about the subject of micronationalism for this article. The central micronation in the article is Flandrensis and I took 2 important parts from it: "I wanted it to be useful. I learned of micronations proclaiming territories in Antarctica so I did it, but as an ecological venture, to raise awareness on ice melting. Flandrensis is the only country that does not want citizens on its territory" and "This is now finished. If the Alcatraz conference proved one thing, it is that newer micronations no longer seek official recognition. Niels has never compared Flandrensis to a real state. Another guest, the Principalty of Aigues-Mortes, never thought of taking such a position. Alcatraz is perfectly satisfied being what it is." --Delle89 (talk) 17:34, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

From the same author as the book Le business des vanités : enquête sur les arnaques à la noblesse? This article is very useful for other micronational articles on Wikipedia and to discuss on Wikipedia:WikiProject Micronations. --Lyam Desmet (talk) 11:39, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, and there is a new book from Johan Joelsson (Mikronationer) who was present at the conference in Perugia --Delle89 (talk) 18:21, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Update June 2016

In April the Dutch National Geographic mentioned the micronation in its magazine and their website as part of a 2 page long article about micronations. --Lyam Desmet (talk) 19:05, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

British English edit notice request

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

Please create an edit notice for the article, placing in it the template {{British English|form=editnotice}} Thank you--KDS4444 (talk) 02:48, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done (by template editor). Paine ^u/c 13:43, 6 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Update October 2017

Small update with sources from French media about micronational conferences in Aigues-Mortes and Atlanta and an interview I found in a Polish magazine. --Delle89 (talk) 18:22, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Update July 2020

On their website there is a list with all publications in media, so I made 2 small edits. The images of the currency were deleted because there was no evidence of permission. I've send an e-mail to them and quickly received a message back from the founder, the permission will be send to the permission-commons. --Delle89 (talk) 13:53, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I uploaded the image of 20 flandri again, the designer gave permission for all 3 designs to the permission-commons --Delle89 (talk) 15:54, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

20Flandri.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:21, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Update September 2021

In August 2021 the French newspaper Le Monde published a serie of 6 articles on micronations, including Flandrensis. On their social media they announced the micronation is now a non-profit organisation and I found the registration and bylaws (see sources article). --Delle89 (talk) 21:33, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Too much detail for a small topic

Wikipedia isn't the replacement for a homepage. This is a very minor topic, and does not deserve such high detail for an environmental group masquerading as a micronation. If you want to discuss further, please discuss here instead of reverting. Angryapathy (talk) 13:25, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with this opinion and calling micronations a finge subject is subjective. Specifically in environmental micronationalism they get a lot of (academic) interest, so this isn't a minor topic. I certainly agree with improvements to this article, but please don't delete information based on reliable sources. If you are interested, please participate in the WikiProject Micronations to improve more articles on micronations. Delle89 (talk) 18:02, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia article for the subject does not need to contain every bit of information on the subject. This is an encyclopedia entry on the micronation, not the micronation's website. Angryapathy (talk) 20:05, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You almost fooled me: a website is not a reliable source ;-)

But seriously: the first time I edited this page, I removed all unnecessary information that did not appear in the documentation for my paper. Compared to the website, certain info is even outdated but mentioned in a book or newspaper. Thanks for the help and a critical look at WikiProject Micronations is also welcome to improve other articles. Delle89 (talk) 09:30, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox country versus micronation

Sorry, but the infobox (edit 11 April) reduces the quality of the article. The discussion about template 'country versus micronation' is non-sense. It is clear to everyone that micronations are not recognized (as stated in the article). The template does not cause confusion and contains factual information. Delle89 (talk) 10:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria is there a reason why national symbols of micronations are excluded from the infobox? Delle89 (talk) 13:46, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See the discussion at the community RfC which reached consensus for their exclusion. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]