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March 2006

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I'm slowly updating this page until more anime fans jump in. So enough about standards... the wiki just started.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssullivan (talk • contribs) 21:12, March 18, 2006

Additional information (too many spoilers?)

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Hey, just wanted to know if I can add some more information to the page, like stuff on "Insania Infection" and the "Rabid Syndrome" which is explained later on the series? I'm just not sure whether or not that might spoil too much? Any information will include the identities of the first and second carriers, and might allude to the ending as well. \(^o^)/ 09:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Genesister = Geneshadow + ?

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Okay, I've watched over the series a couple of times and I still don't know what Luna's vehicle is called. Was it ever mentioned in the show? Since Shadow's fighter is "Geneshadow" should I assume that Luna's is "Geneluna" or something? Does anyone have any idea at all? \(^o^)/ 17:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No you dunce, (no offense, but I'm surprised you didn't pay much attention to the robot names that much) Luna's unit is called "Lunasister" hence "Genesister" again, I'm surprised you didn't take notice sooner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.48.33 (talk) 18:04, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A correction needs to be made

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I've literally just finished watching this series, and while reading it's wiki article, I noticed a slight factual error. The article states that the
Neo-Okusaer was originally piloted by Milla. This is not correct. The original Okusaer was the Go-Okusaer, and that was piloted by Milla. The Neo 
model was built after Milla's 'death' and the near total destruction of the Go-Okusaer. The remains of the Go-model were removed from storage and 
repaired after Milla returns. From the time Milla regains her memories to the end of the series, she pilots the Neo model, while Anna pilots the 
Go-model.

From what I understand, while the Go-model is something like a prototype of the Neo, the Go is still significantly more powerful. And that's the main 
problem with it. It has power-balancing issues that the Neo doesn't; the Go-model's plasma drives are more powerful, but much more difficult to manage 
than the Neo's drives. Anna is ordered to restrict the Go-model's power-output below 'level 6', otherwise she could lose control and blow the whole 
machine to bits. She actually spends at least one, maybe two, episodes training to control the Go-model's plasma drives; something she doesn't 
completely manage until the end of episode 25. This difference in power is the reason that the flames of the Godannar are different colors; red for 
Neo-Okusaer and blue for Go-Okusaer.

Uldihaa 04:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]


- Okay, that's interesting...but wasn't Milla's "Okusaer" (shown in the first episode disengaging from Go's Dannar) the same color as Anna's Neo-Okusaer in that same episode? 'Cos I swear that Okusaer and Anna's both look exactly the same...unless they initiated a color change for Go-Okusaer later in the series so as not to confuse between the two? But then why was the Neo-Okusaer sealed under the graveyard?

From the second box above, if the Go-model is a prototype of the Neo, then wouldn't that mean the Neo-model came first (i.e. Milla piloted the Neo 5 years ago and went back to piloting it when her memories returned)? I do remember something said between Shizuru and the professor about the Go-model being an improvement over the Neo-model... \(^o^)/ 17:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User: demecowen

To the first box, that is not true, Milla never use Go-Okusaer in battle. She tried to get to work, but from comments from Kiriko Aoi and Shizuru during development stages Milla could never control Go-Okusaer at full power. Therefore the Neo-Okusaer was built as a step down to power compare to the Go-Okusaer so Milla can use it in battle. The Go-Okusaer was rebuilt to replace Core Gunner after it was destory on espiodes 11.

To Uldhiaa There was only one Neo-Okusaer, that was built after it was shown that Go-Okusaer could not be use in combat, first Milla used it until her "death" it seal up I guess out respect for the death of Milla. Then Anna use it from espiodes 1 to 10. Then back to Milla after she return with her full memories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Demecowen (talkDemecowen (talk) 01:36, 24 September 2010 (UTC) contribs) 01:23, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Godannar cover.jpg

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Image:Godannar cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wordplay

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I'm not sure how it happened, but everyone missed the pun-fairy's visit here...

That the title of the show, 「神魂合体ゴーダンナー!!」, literally means "God Soul Combination Godannar!!" I can't particularly deny. However, there's at least two obvious puns here. 「神魂」 is being read 「しんこん」, which can also be written 「新婚」; "Newly-wed." The first episode opens at Gou's wedding, and the "troubled-newlyweds" theme is pervasive throughout. Another writing of it is 「心魂」, which is sort of a "(my) everything" connotation of "heart." 「合体」 plays on this nicely by having a lot of different senses, all involving the concept of "coming together." You hear it a lot with super robot animation; it's the universal code word to inform the audience that the Dinosaur Empire is going to lose to the Getter Team again, and the Space Terrible Monster Crowd is about to have its day utterly wrecked courtesy of Gunbuster. But it also refers to combinations of forces (armies, chefs, baseball players). And sex. Gee, what could 「新婚合体」 possibly be referring to? :P Considering how the series plays itself out, the robots themselves could even be argued as a sort of euphemism or metaphor for sex.

Gou's blue machine, uncombined, is called Dannar (pronounced 「だんな」, a pun on the reading of 「旦那」, a colloquialism for one's husband). The mecha first encountered by Anna in the first episode is known as "Neo-Okusauer" (pronounced 「ネオ・おくさわ」, a play on the reading of 「奥様」 (read 「おくさま」, it's a polite way to refer to the wife of another), which sounds rather similar in normal speech). When they combine, they form the super robot, 「ゴーダンナー」. That name is a play on the 「御」 used to mark an honourific (「御旦那」 isn't something I have ever heard, but it would be taken to mean something to the effect of "My honourable master (of the household)" when speaking to someone of the out-group register), and in the passion of their combination, Godannar turns red. Yowza.

As might be gathered, "Go Okusauer" would be a play on 「御奥様」; "(your/you the) honourable wife." But this one's a little trickier than that. Anna is the second wife of Gou, and Neo-Okusauer is the second of its kind. The second wife pilots the second machine (and for a long time appears to be losing out the memory of Gou's late wife: Gou didn't want Anna involved with piloting and its dangers). But when Millia is "revived" it's made very clear that she was the original pilot of it. The Go Okusauer (the original prototype that was too powerful, prompting the "Neo" version), is the first and more powerful, so thematically speaking, it would represent the one "closer to Gou's heart;" the more powerful bond; his number one; his bed; his mate. That Millia has taken the backseat to Anna in Gou's life is important to the resolution, after all.

Super robot animations frequently draw these sorts of parallels, enough that it's been deconstructed in G Gundam ("We warriors can only communicate through our fists!") and parodied in the recent Tengen Toppa Guren Lagan (Drills are heavily played as a phallic object in the beginning, and a number of gags are made over "combining"). So even though Millia takes Anna's place in the Neo-Okusauer, Anna has the last laugh as she has taken the real prize and first place in Gou's life/bed/mecha.

"Twin Drive" isn't part of the name of the machine at any point. Rationale? Well, Volspina doesn't have "Slave On" as part of its name, right? It's super robot animaton: shouting is cool, especially when you've just combined. :)

-Trent Arms (talk) 16:28, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

PS: This show was an amusing weekend-spent. Wasn't too fond of the bustiness of all the girls, but it might be called more tribute to the other Gou.


parody to others Super robot animes

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Goddiner look like "Bolt Gundam" from "gundam G"

in the Episode 6 you can see "Lieutenant Amagi" from "gundam seed".

Neo Okusaer ,Go Okusaer ,Volspina and Volspinner are parody of "Aphrodite A" from "Mazinger Z"

Slave Wing are combination of "ArmSlave" from FMP and "Gundamwing" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.22.22.59 (talk) 22:51, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sale of A.D. Vision assets

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The sale of A.D. Vision assets will make updating this article necessary. There is an article on Section23 Films that may be helpful in the future. 97.115.129.240 (talk) 01:42, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Review dump

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Removing templates per deletion decision. – Allen4names (contributions) 15:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Episode air dates

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Does anybody know all of the series' episodes' air dates? It would be greatly appreciated if someone can respond quickly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.48.33 (talk) 22:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cruft

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The gigantic list of every robot, attack, and enemy in this series is cruft in the extreme, and has no place on Wikipedia. Please read through WP:NOT, particularly sections WP:NOTGUIDE and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. While the exact specific scenario found in this article isn't mentioned on that policy page, it is not possible to list every single conceivable scenario on a policy page. It is clear, however, that the gargantuan lists (over 12 kilobytes of text) found in this article lack encyclopedic value and fall within the spirit of the material listed as not acceptable on the WP:NOT policy page. In addition to being excessive information wholly unimportant to the average reader, the material is entirely unsourced. Some guy (talk) 21:21, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • I can understand attacks and enemies to a degree, but why would you not allow information about the mecha in a series whose primary genre is mecha? By this reasoning that is no different than saying "well there are too many characters mentioned in this article so none deserved to be mentioned". I have reviewed the policies and I have yet to see how exactly how the lists contradict them. At the very least we should keep the mecha names because they are one of the main parts of the story. Yapool Seijin (talk) 14:44, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • A gigantic list of names is not particularly valuable as encyclopedic content. First off, it looks ugly. Secondly, it is overwhelming for the casual reader, and Wikipedia is intended for casual readers, not die-hard fans. Someone who hasn't seen the series before probably won't have any interest in a list of every single mech in an anime. If you want to write for die-hard fans, you should try alternative fan-wikis such as Wikia. Thirdly, such material is extremely difficult to source, and if you can't find reliable and reputable sources for it (fansites don't count), it can't go in the article.
Notability and depth of coverage are important considerations. If there are twenty or thirty mechs in a series it's just foolish to list all of them. A gigantic list of names with short descriptions or no descriptions has no value to anyone (the same reason book articles don't list every chapter in the book). Conversely, unless it's an extremely significant series with extensive coverage in the media (Evangelion or Gundam, for example), you can't justify writing a paragraph-long description of every single one of those twenty to thirty mechs.
The Fast and the Furious is a movie about cars, but it doesn't have a list of every single car in the movie. It just doesn't make good article content. Some guy (talk) 05:19, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The difference between a movie about cars and a mecha anime series is that the latter covers a variety of episodes instead of one short period of time. The mecha themselves are significant because that is what most of the cast uses and that is what the genre is about (and the main mecha is usually in the title of these anime). Mecha themselves are what some anime fans look for before watching a series or movie of this genre. The machines themselves are, in a way, part of the characters themselves and are essential to the story. The mecha themselves also do not need paragraph long descriptions, you can have easy organization just by listing name, the pilot(s), powers, and in some cases the first episode they appear in. As long as there is correct formatting it will look neat to casual viewers so there should not be a problem. Numbers are also not much of a problem, since these mechs appear on several teams they can easily be broken up into subsections, that way it seems more organized than a straight list. Then there are the mimetic beasts, who are the antagonists of a story; they are essential and without being mentioned it gives readers too vague of an idea on what the story is about. They are referred to by name often in the episodes, they play vital roles to the plot, and without them the mechs themselves have no reason to exist in-universe (kind of like mentioning pokeballs in Pokemon without the pokemon themselves).
I do, however, understand that you would prefer articles to be very clean so I have given some level and thought if you are okay with the idea of tables. One table could be used for mecha and descriptions on them and the other can be used to combine both the episodes and the mimetic beasts (I have seen this on Japanese Wikipedia articles on anime and tokuatsu all the time). The article has good presentation and content for a normal viewer, people that are looking for something specific may get what they are looking for, and the people that first put the mecha content keep their information; it seems like win-win from that perspective. Yapool Seijin (talk) 14:12, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You have 38 super robots across 26 episodes. There is no way that every single one of them is important to the plot. —Farix (t | c) 01:36, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The you only list the ones that are. Yapool Seijin (talk) 14:11, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Other than the main three, which should already be covered in the plot section, which other super robots are important and why? —Farix (t | c) 14:35, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Core Gunner since Chizuru is a main character and it has been used for the first half of the series, Gainer/Blade Gainer since Ken is the only human antagonist of the series, it had a presence for two third the series, and Ken serves as the anti-hero, Cosmo Diver since Lou is a main character as well and uses it for most of the series, and Celleblade since it/the Type 18 that ate it is what Ken has been looking for throughout the series and Lou uses it at the end (not to mention it is required for Twin Drive Godannar's most powerful attack). G-Gunner and G-Zero Gunner could go either way. The other mechs can simply be mentioned in bold with their pilots. Everything at least gets a mention and the article looks clean. Yapool Seijin (talk) 16:27, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not every robot needs to be mentioned outside of the episode it appears in. Only the main robots should be covered by the plot section. The episode table does need development, since it is a rudimentary list right now. I'll probably work on after I get home from work. —Farix (t | c) 16:51, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Creating a table doesn't magically make text valid article content. It will still be unsourced, and I'm sure you have no way around that. It will still be cruft, completely excessive detail. The mimetic beast don't need names. Think about that for a split second. You just explained why the mimetic beasts were important without listing all their names. If you describe what kind of enemy they are fighting and why it is important they are fighting that enemy, that's perfectly suitable.
"you can have easy organization just by listing name, the pilot(s), powers, and in some cases the first episode they appear in" - that has no absolutely no value to anyone except people who have already watched the show, making it poor content.
You are confusing your interests with important information. Regarding Fast and the Furious again, the cars themselves are significant because that is what most of the cast uses and that is what the genre is about. Cars themselves are what some automotive fans look for before watching a series or movie of this genre. The machines themselves are, in a way, part of the characters themselves and are essential to the story. See, anyone can substitute that for any interest, but it's very flawed logic. Some guy (talk) 07:06, 7 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Technically I could find a way around mimetic beast naming, the problem would be having the reference every other episode and some video games (which, admittedly, is incredibly tedious). That and I seriously doubt only people who watched the series might want to know mimetic beast names, by that logic only people that watched the series would want to know guest cast and crew members. As for mechanics, unlike The Fast and The Furious, the name of main character's machine is the Godannar (whose name is in the title) and when people want to look up a mecha series it does more good than harm to mention the titular machine. If the main series article is not a good place to put it, it is usually given it's article.Yapool Seijin (talk) 14:44, 7 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You really need to take a step back and separate your interests from reality. "by that logic only people that watched the series would want to know guest cast and crew members" - that's a completely invalid analogy. Cast and crew members exist in the real world and are relevant to other things. The mimetic beasts do not exist in the real world and don't have acting careers, fans, public appearances, etc. Most of them don't even have names, just numbers. You can describe a few primary mechs if they are important, but it's assanine to list every single mech. Some guy (talk) 20:52, 8 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is though there are other articles for cast and crew in the real world and the casual reader will most likely not care on their first viewing anymore than they would for the monsters of the week in a given series. There is also the fact that articles like this are for fiction, not the real world. As for the mechs it is equally if not more asinine to have no information on the titular mecha itself and/or other main mecha in the story. Yapool Seijin (talk) 02:41, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think about what you are writing? "There are articles for cast and crew in the real world", what does that mean? They shouldn't be listed because they have articles? That's exactly the opposite of how Wikipedia works. If something relevant has an article, you link to it. Do you expect people to look at a series and think, "I wonder who was in this", and then read every single voice actor article until they find out? Real people have more value than a fictional enemy of the week. I was watching Gankutsuou, and I thought the Count sounded like Alucard, so I checked the Wikipedia article for Gank and clicked on the voice actor for the Count - bam, same person. Real world information, real relevancy. Then you look at fluff like what was located here, and you can find out that England has a "strike bomber" named Dragliner. That's useless information. It's cruft. It's not important. Some fictional universes, which are more popular and notable than Godannar, have articles about fictional entities within them, but that is because they are more notable works with more sourcable third-party content on the subjects.
It's all right to write about the titular mech and possibly a few other significant mechs in the series. It might be appropriate to describe a major "boss" enemy if there is a particularly notable one. It is not appropriate to list absolutely everything, and keep in mind above all else you don't have reliable/reputable sources for it. Some guy (talk) 06:49, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Cast and crew have their own articles on Wikipedia and this article is not about them, it is about fiction. What is important in an article of fiction are the in-universe elements. If cast and crew are that significant, why are they not higher up on the article sections? It is just like the ending credits, few people stick around and watch them because to them it is equally as useless information if not more so because cast and crew are not in-universe. Also, not everyone is going to care about who worked on it unless they either saw it already or are one of the few that do care, which by your definition of fan cruft also goes into the subject matter. As for the mecha are important to a series like this (primarily because unlike cast and crew they are not only in-universe, but IN THE TITLE) which gives them enough reason to have a subsection. As for reliable sources, they are the episodes, the problem is the amount of citations would take an extremely long time; that is why at this point I am just debating to have the main mechs mentioned in this article. Yapool Seijin (talk) 16:55, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(undent) You have a huge problem in how you look at and understand what content is important in articles. Real people have more importance than minor in-universe elements. That those voice actors have articles indicates they are important and worth linking to. The fact that you think the opposite shows that you are too invested in your interests as a fan and have a poor grasp of what is important in an encyclopedia. I highly recommend you transition to fan wikis rather than trying to fill articles here with cruft. At the very least you must take the time to read through Wikipedia policy pages and have a better understanding of our mission here. Voice actors have careers, and fans who care about them, and thus are important to at least some viewers. Since a voice actor is a person from the real world, a casual reader might recognize and understand a voice actor listed in the article, which obviously isn't the case with in-universe lists. That's the problem with in-universe content, it is only relevant in that fictional universe, and thus should not be a significant portion of article content.
Episodes are primary sources and thus not great sources for article content. While they are acceptable sources for plot details, they should not form the primary basis for the article. Reliable third-party sources establish real-world notability. Are you familiar with the concept of notability on Wikipedia? Not every single thing in a fictional universe is notable. Certain aspects of the fictional universe might be inherently notable for that article - the primary antagonist, the main villain, etc. That doesn't mean an entire cast of 50 or more mechs and enemies is notable. I've said several times it's okay to talk about the titular mech (Godannar) here; however, the content must be rewritten; listing Godannar's attacks is severe cruft. You can explain why Godannar is notable for the series (it is the mech of the main character, it can merge with several other mechs), and any important background information about it (it was made by x for the purpose of y, or whatever). However, that can't be a huge section of the article. Some guy (talk) 19:20, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have read Wikipedia's policies and I have yet to see any issue with what I am doing aside from citing. Your argument with real people does not work here as they have their own articles (which is not this one) and have little content to contribute to the fictional settings (which is why in articles lie this they are merely listed in credits aside from mentioning of production). Your idea of notability seems to be too extreme as to have absolutely no detail on mechs and enemies when they do drive a significant part of the story is just silly no matter what angle you look at it from; by your definition anything from characters to staff or even episode titles qualify as cruft. The mechs and mimetic beasts are also not "minor" as they drive the stories, the scripts that form said stories, the people that animate work on, are copied into various merchandise, and are used to attract its primary audience (i.e. mecha fans). Minor in-universe elements that do not belong in articles would include things such as outfits, diets, every individual setting, the types of guns and ammunition used, a character's height and weight or health, listing inconsistencies, and character resumes. I also never stated episodes should be primary sources, I just indicated that they would be suitable for specific sections of an article. Attacks are also an important part of Godannar itself, however, I will admit it needs to be cut down and edited. Yapool Seijin (talk) 20:26, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How can you not understand this basic concept of Wikipedia? Links are for linking! You link to something that is relevant. If there is a person who acts, and they acted in a major role in a show, it is extremely relevant to list and link to that person. THE FACT THAT SOMETHING RELEVANT HAS ITS OWN ARTICLE DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULDN'T MENTION IT, IT MEANS YOU SHOULD. I have said, repeatedly, it is ok to describe a few of the major mechs and enemies. Are you not reading anything I write?
Read this. Notice there is no "list of mechs" or "list of enemies" or "list of someone's attacks" section. Notice comments like "The character section should consist of brief character outlines, as opposed to a simple list", "Another option is to delete the character section entirely to prevent the article from looking like SparkNotes", "Minor characters may be included here, but article length should be considered." etc. Characters are generally considered the most important part of stories since they usually have emotions, perform actions, and evolve over the course of the story. Yet we aren't advised to make a gigantic list of thirty or more characters.
Episodes are primary sources. You apparently aren't actually very familiar with the Wikipedia policies you've claimed to have read.
I will state this again: your judgement is severly clouded by your zealotry as a fan. You have a fundemental misunderstanding of what is considered important on an encyclopedic scale. Read WP:GAMEGUIDE again. Why would we allow a list of Godannar's attacks, when we don't allow a list of every gun in Combat Arms, a game where guns are so important that is the name of the game? Do you like guns? Did you know an H&K USP .45 holds 12 rounds of ammunition? An AK-47 shoots 600 rounds per minute? A Desert Eagle weighs four pounds? That's fucking fascinating. Who the hell would carry a four pound pistol? The MG42 shoots so fast that Allied soldiers described the sound as similar to tearing canvas! The Skorpion machine pistol holds 20 rounds in a compact package, but the rounds are so small they are only considered "marginally effective"! And that's only entry level information? Surely you can't have a game with guns without listing the different rates of fire modes for each gun. Did you know many automatic firearms also include a toggle switch to fire single shot or three round bursts? If you load a magazine, chamber a round, and then load a different magazine (or chamber the round by hand) you can hold one more round than the magazine carries? Now, we aren't getting into how the receiver is machined yet, but that's not really important on a gameplay scale. Those are real guns, and yet we don't list them in games that have them, because it's not really that important. Listing all of the guns in a game isn't much more valuable to the average reader than saying "there are 15 authentic guns from the World War II era" or what have you.
Lists of every weapon or attack in a video game aren't appropriate. Lists of every weapon or attack in an anime aren't any more appropriate.
The fact that you find mechs interesting doesn't make it valuable content. The fact that you are a huge mech fan doesn't make everyone a huge mech fan. These things aren't important just because you find them interesting. Please, take a step back. In-universe things besides characters and overall plot simply aren't notable enough, according to existing Wikipedia policy, not your opinions, to be listed in exhausting detail. It's okay to describe a few important mechs or enemies, but don't list their attacks, and don't get into excessive detail. Some guy (talk) 06:50, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I read the policies again and apparently the issue you are having is the article length rather than content itself. The policies do not have a specific mention as to how long an article is nor am I seeing anything that says "plot and characters only". Just because some people only care about those does not mean it applies to everyone. Your analogy does not work as video games are a different medium to anime entirely. I also do not see the issue in listing various guns in games and if there are facts on them in the article I see nothing wrong with it. Yapool Seijin (talk) 13:38, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is not length, it is content. Excessive detail violates WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Watch your editing. Any cruft will be removed. Some guy (talk) 07:00, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Real shame the content is not cruft nor does it violate policies.Yapool Seijin (talk) 17:03, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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