Talk:Gil Kane/Archive 1

Kane ship design

[[Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg -->|thumb|right|225px|Showcase #22 (Oct. 1959)]] The image shown at the right is from Showcase #22 (Oct. 1959), the first appearance of the modern Green Lantern. The missle depicted is virtually the same design as the ship used by Charlie-27 of the Guardians of the Galaxy in Marvel Super-Heroes #18 (Jan 1969). Does anyone know if Kane drew this ship anywhere else?--StAkAr Karnak 17:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 16:37, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

C-Class rated for Comics Project

As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/Assessment#Requesting_an_assessment and list the article. Hiding T 14:09, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I did an assessment as it is an important article. Coverage and content is good but it needs quite a lot more references. (Emperor (talk) 17:54, 25 February 2009 (UTC))

File:Starhawkskane.jpg may be deleted

I have tagged File:Starhawkskane.jpg, which is in use in this article for deletion because it does not have a copyright tag. If a copyright tag is not added within seven days the image will be deleted. --Chris 07:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Do we really need to say "Second wife" when describing his widow & wife of over 30 years, Elaine Kane?

I just feel that in of keeping with most manuals of style, especially since he was married only twice and the first marriage was a brief one that was rarely discussed, we should eliminate the descriptive "second wife" when referring to Gil's LEGAL Widow, Elaine Kane. Gil's marriage to Elaine lasted nearly 35 years (just shy of it, I believe, at the time of his death). Since I cannot even find a decent reliable source giving the full name of his first wife, the date & details of their short marriage other then mention of their long legal separation, I'm simply asking others if it would be more appropriate and stylistically correct to say he is "survived by his widow, Elaine Kane...etc and so forth" since his first wife didn't play a significant role in his career whereas Elaine did and continues to do so. She was even flown out to be present at the Premiere of Green Lantern (film) - I can get a cite on that if you need it but Elaine and I talked about it at length. If you want to add something in his biography about his marriage to his first wife, then I can see continuing to name Elaine as his second wife, so long as you name Scott's mother by her FULL legal name, since Scott is his son from his 1st marriage. However, nobody I know has been able to get in touch with Scott for some time and I don't even know what last name he uses these days. I don't even know if Gil's 1st wife is still living. She was living at the time of his death but that may not be true any longer. Feedback is welcome. LiPollis (talk) 20:16, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

The most neutral way of saying it is the most chronologically plain and factual: "He was survived by his second wife, Elaine." Any other considerations are personal observations and go against Wikipedia's neutral tone. I know this may sound cold, but that's the nature of making this a dispassionate and objective encyclopedia. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:52, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I see now you've been on Wikipedia since 2006. I'm surprised an experienced editor such as yourself would have posted this. You mention Scott conversationally and that "I don't even know what last name he uses these days," so this and other comments make it sound as if you have some personal connection. Is that accurate? --Tenebrae (talk) 21:55, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Never mind. Reading your post more closely I see "Elaine and I talked about it at length." Since you have a personal connection, I'm glad you're discussing things here since it wouldn't be appropriate to edit the article based on that. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:57, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Tenebrae, I normally follow your lead so I'll leave it as such although I still feel the article reads as if ELAINE Kane is somehow a marginal figure. Gil's first marriage was brief. He separated and had a difficult time obtaining a divorce but the majority of his life was soent married to Elaine. If you read the article, it doesn't seem that way. As for Scott, who is Gil's son and whom he adored and bragged about while there was breath in his body; Scott was said by Gil (to me and others) to have used various last names over the years. I didn't mean to sound "flip" about not knowing which last name he uses now, I just didn't know at the time and there is still some confusion from his relatives who have contacted me, of all people, to locate him. One of them alleges that Scott uses his mother's maiden name which I cannot confirm through any reliable source. Gil did legally change his name FROM Eli Katz TO Gil Kane, a fact easily verified in his biography. He also legally adopted Elaine's two children who legally use the name KANE as do his Grandchildren. Therefore, they are not his step-children but in the eyes of the law, his "children". I realize the NYTimes Obit uses their own style manual but how does wikipedia handle adopted children? Most of these facts are freely available biographical information available all over the net and in books. I can try and find you a few specific sources for these things if you feel it would more accurately represent his family life. I feel it would. Again, most of these facts are likely to be in his biography which is already cited in the article. As for bias: Yes I knew Gil and I continue to have a close relationship with Elaine, but so do I have such relationships with many surviving Silver-Age figures and their families as well as current artists as well as dozens of Science Fiction artists, authors and their families. I've been active professionally in those worlds and it can't be helped. You form friendships. It's doesn't make you biased so much as it gives you a chance to have heard these things directly from the people involved. I wasn't trying to sound all cozy and exlusive. I'll defer to your judgement but if you feel anything could be improved and would like some help, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. CBR is also a good source. LiPollis (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

One last comment: I spoke to beverly about her visit to LA in connection to an article about the opening of the film THE FLASH. it was not a merely personal conversation. I do still cover the comics world and especially anything having to do with Silver Agers being given credit where credit is due. It was an unexpected but respectful gesture for them to invite her out. LiPollis (talk) 20:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi, LiPollis. It's good to hear back from you. I've been scouring the Web and my own collection of books and magazines, and I even bought a copy of Daniel Herman's collection of interviews with and about Gil ... and I'm not finding anything about his first wife. You mention "facts [that] are freely available [in] biographical information available all over the net and in books," and if you could point me to any, I'd sincerely be obliged. I've most back issues of Alter Ego, Comic Book Artist and, well, Back Issue, as well as several issues of The Comics Journal and Amazing Heroes, among others, plus 40-50 books on comics history, and I'm frustrated in my search.

One thing I'm confused about: Your mentions of "Beverly" make it sound as if that's the name of Gil's first wife. Isn't that his step/adoptive daughter's name? Were both of them coincidentally named Beverly? If that's his first wife's name, that's at least something addition for which I can search. Also, if we can find a published source confirming the adoptions, then, of course, that can be changed in this article.

It all comes down to published sourcing. You can see I'm trying to find 'em! --Tenebrae (talk) 22:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Tenebrae, you are so right, I was EXHAUSTED when I wrote that reply. Beverly is Gil's adopted daughter, not his step-daughter but yes, I realize you do not know that yet as a fact. Elaine IS his widow. I'm still running on 3 days of no sleep so forgive me if I get this wrong but I think if you type into google books Gil Kane First Wife, you will get her full name. I'm not at my best right now so even though I think I remember her full name and the various professional names Scott has used, I need to check them. I also didn't mean to back away from the Kanes as if I didn't have a personal relationship with them. I most certainly DID and still have a personal relationship with Elaine., although I often talk to her for info. I mean, geez, Gil walked me down the Aisle when Julie Schwartz refused to fly into LA after Thanksgiving! Gil thought it would be fun since his only daughter (in his eyes) eloped. I have personal relationships with the widows and children of many Silver Age figures. It happens when you spend as much time as I did traveling around with Julie Schwartz who got me my first job in publishing. It's one of the perks! it doesn't make you terribly biased for or againbst people unless they're unkind. it's more of a privilege.

As for sourcing: Comic Book Resources website online has so many archived articles and there are interviews with so many people available by scanning Google books. There are some things I'd like to share with you for the benefit of your information only in so far as it might help you with sources and understand some of the gaps that exist; but not here. You can email me at HollyCricket@aol.com if you'd like that(not my regular email folks, just one I use on occasion) - BTW, if you are on Facebook, there are a few private groups of Comic Pros dedicated to posting and preserving images of Gil's art and many of us wind up telling stories about him that obviously are OR. Still, they often jog a memory and lead us to find a source for something.

As for a public source on the adoptions, The Kanes were living in the State of CT at the time. I know Elaine Kane's word is not good enough for Wikipedia but Gary Groth SURELY should have a source for that. I recommend asking HIM since he is Gil's artistic executor. Also Gary published hundreds and hundreds of pages of interviews with Gil over the years in The Comics Journal and he may have mentioned it there. However, that's not something a parent often feels the need to insist on putting in print for a someday online encyclopedia. We may have a hard time with that one thing unless wee can find a more personal Obit to cite. I'll look around. Please be patient with me. I've been writing on a deadline and I have ANZAC DAY ceremonies coming up so it's a crazy month. I would like to be of as much help as possible and not be a snot about it. Of course I loved Gil. Everyone close to him did. It would be nice if his article can reflect his family dynamic as he knew it to be and anyone marginally close to him knew it to be but I DO understand the demands of Reliable Sourcing. I sometimes have to remind some of my other Literary-oriented friends that they can't just write stuff and assert stuff that we all know as facts about older writers who have passed away recently without sourcing them. Sorry if my fondness for the Kanes blinded me to that here.LiPollis (talk) 06:51, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Listed Works

Is it necessary to list every work he did and if so, can't it be done in a table? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kosher grill (talk • contribs) 03:00, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

A two-column list is much less obtrusive than a table.-Tenebrae (talk) 19:45, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

I disagree. A spreadshee.t would look much better. But it shouldn't be needed. An encyclopedia article doesn't need a complete listing of every insignificant work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kosher grill (talk • contribs) 03:15, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Jewish Comic Creators

Jewish comic creators as a group were an essential part of the comics business and their development and should be in the lead, especially, as in the case of Gil Kane, when they took such pride in their Jewish identity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kosher grill (talk • contribs) 03:21, 7 February 2018

He may have taken pride in it, notwithstanding that he changed his birth name, but according to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies, "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." It is not relevant to Kane's notability. Kane is notable for his artwork and his publishing ventures, not his religion — unlike, for comparison, Elie Wiesel, whose Jewish identity was absolutley integral to his notability.--Tenebrae (talk) 20:27, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Thief?

Should the long standing rumours that he was blackballed from Marvel because he was caught stealing original art from their archives be included? Howard Chaykin has referred negatively to his ethics, Al Milgrom has referred to his ban as resulting from 'not being qualified as a human being to work there', Jim Shooter has describing theft incidents involving 'an artist who shall remain nameless', Archie Goodwin is supposed to have written something for a zine discussing it with pseudonyms used for everyone. LamontCranston (talk) 09:37, 9 March 2019 (UTC)