Talk:Ghost note

Merge: Ghost notes

This page should be combined with Ghost notes, they are saying the same thing (though the other is in much more detail) and this page makes ghost notes exclusive to percussion instruments. Cambodianholiday 21:24, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

references?

From the article I cant make out whether "ghosting" is clave-specific jargon or claims to be a more standard term. I've tagged it for lack of references. Sparafucil 04:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I have added a reference. Still needs work regarding origin, etc. Hyacinth (talk) 08:20, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Someone goes on about ghost notes in claves, and then someone says ghost notes are not just clave things. It would much better if we started with a general definition of ghost notes and then discussed particular applications. TheScotch (talk) 10:35, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Ghost notes and dead notes

It seems like the writer is mixing up dead notes and ghost notes, when he states that ghost notes can be written as x-es and that they can be brought forth by muting the strings. As far as I am concerned, these are dead notes and are clearly different from ghost notes. there also is an article(stub) about ghost notes. 130.89.162.23 (talk) 09:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I think it's that deadened notes on the guitar (my impression is that this a technique particular to the guitar--or at least fretted, plucked string instruments) are customarily notated with x's, and for certain instruments, especially the piano in jazz transcriptions, so are ghost notes customarily notated with x's. TheScotch (talk) 10:30, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I concur that there is some confusion in the article regarding stringed instruments (at least the guitar) and ghost notes. The technique in the article referred to as ghosting a note is actually a type of muting (muting in general can performed using either the palm or fingers of the picking hand or with the fingering hand during or after a string is played, or a combination of all the latter). This technique mutes a string and not any particular note as the string is usually not fretted while using the technique alluded to in the article, so it's not a ghost note. A 'dead' note would be more appropriate, but I still don't believe that the technique can be classed as creating a 'ghost note'. In guitar tablature notation, the 'x' denotes a mute and not a ghost note. I suggest that a proper ghost note played on the guitar is one that is lightly played (without an accent) in comparison to others in the same phrase or whole song, etc. However, there does seem to be some contention.2A02:C7F:2CB3:F800:7CC9:B5E9:1BFF:2A29 (talk) 19:59, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Additional citations

Why, what, where, and how does this article need additional citations for verification? Hyacinth (talk) 20:01, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Technical claim

The article defines ghosting notes in terms of de-emphasising them, and to an extent comparable with the difference between emphasised and normal notes. This is all fine.

However, at the very end of the section headed 'Role', the article states that:

... the ghosting of notes is a function of volume[citation needed] rather than of duration.

I've added the {{fact}} tag after the word 'volume', as this is a specific technical claim. Note dynamics are effected by a combination of attack velocity, decay time, sustain time and release time (which is why these four envelope parameters are used in sound synthesis). Volume (as a function of time) is just one of the consequences of these parameters; another important one is timbre. The change of emphasis between normal and emphasised, or normal and ghosted, in each case changes the timbre of the affected note, usually quite significantly.

I believe (without being able to prove) that emphasis and ghosting are more about attack than volume. Even the humble piano, in many ways a very deficient percussion instrument, can deliver soft (piano, low volume) notes with a normal, an emphasised, or a de-emphasised, attack; the same applies to loud (forte, high volume) notes. (It's all in the motions of the hand, wrist, forearm and whole arm.) Although an increase in attack velocity is usually associated with an increase in volume, "It ain't necessarily so". Based on my experience as a pianist (not, unfortunately, a drummer), I think it likely that the drummer also can control the attack velocity in such a way to alter both volume and timbre of the notes played.

So, without seeing some definite documentary proof (or conducting some (inadmissible) Original Research), I'm not going to believe that ghosting is solely, or even mainly, brought about by changes in volume, and to state it is may be misleading. That's why I'm asking for proof in the form of a citation or two. yoyo (talk) 18:30, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Original research

Why, what, where, and how does this article contain original research and what should be done about it? Hyacinth (talk) 20:01, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Tag removed. Hyacinth (talk) 08:24, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Additional citations

Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth (talk) 08:24, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Wind instruments

They're pretty common in jazz music, especially for saxes. Somebody should find a source and talk about that. 73.138.3.167 (talk) 06:20, 29 March 2020 (UTC)