Talk:Gertrude Shipman

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 17 April 2021 by reviewer DGG (talk · contribs).

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Another son?

In the trivia section of herpage IMDb says Jerry McGill was her son [His IMDb page is here https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1529971/?ref_=nm_dyk_trv1 here]. FloridaArmy (talk) 13:22, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi FloridaArmy, if so it seems strange that he's not in the census or other records. I will double check. I wonder if it's a 1) name change for the son, or 2) another relative. I will check around. IMDB is not a reliable source in almost all cases, particularly for biographical info. Kind of on par with Find a Grave - lots of contributors, some who are diligent and others not so much.–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:09, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tacking in here as I find info.

I found that Robert seems to have the same date and place of death as is in the bio for Jerry. He had the same birth day (August 18) but is one year off (1904 vs. 1905).here. It would be strange that they wrote a fairly detailed bio of the McGills, but didn't mention Jerry - who would have been about 15 when the family went to Waldo, Florida....
The same source says: "A former newspaperman, Robert (Jerry) McGill was one of the developers of the long running network radio newspaper drama "Big Town" (1937-1952). That "other" person is the only mention of "Jerry". I am not sure if the point is that that Robert (Jerry), who was a former newspaper man, may be their son Robert, later called Jerry. But they don't have enough evidence to state it outright.
This is the family in 1920 in Waldo, Florida:

Lawrence B Mcgill 52 Head
Gertrude A Mcgill 38 Wife
Vida I Keller. 25 Daughter (Lawrence's d. from 1st marriage, early widow)
Edmund R Mcgill. 15 Son (Their son)
Frederick E Keller. 0 Grandson (Vida's son)

This source, fag is written by Edmund Robert "Jerry" McGill's daughter (Sandra McGill Smith ), states that he changed his name to Jerry after the stock market crash of 1929. And, he dies in New York, which makes sense. From other records that I saw, he seemed to gravitate towards the northeastern areas. We cannot use it for a source, but it gives me info to do a bit more research. The record for this Edmond Robert / Jerry McGill is not titled "Jerry McGill"

The imdb source says Jerry's birthname is Edmond Robert McGill. Again, cannot use it has a source, but it helps in research.

In 1840, there is an Edmund McGill, with a wife Eva, and daughter Sandra (i.e., matches up with Find a Grave.) He was born in Connecticut about 1904 or 1905. They live in New York City.

Edmund McGill 35 Head
Eva McGill. 31 Wife
Sandra McGill. 7 Daughter - same age as the Sandra in Find a Grave

I am beginning to wonder if he just used "Jerry" for his career, and kept Edmund Robert for family and legal issues. The marriage record from 1929 states that Edmund, born in Bridgeport, Connecticut, married Eva Halett Gunderud in 1929 in Brooklyn. Record from: U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Church Records, 1781-1969. May not be the same couple, it would be good to find a newspaper article that ties them together with the Waldo McGills.

Edmund Robert McGill was one of 32 Rhodes scholars. Shucks, I am having a hard time finding a good secondary sources to tie things together! But, I do remember reading somewhere that Lawrence and Gertrude's son was a Rhodes scholar. Ironically, this is really fun for me. I love solving riddles. Bolded the most reliable info.

This newspaper article seems to tie up things a bit:

Edmund R. McGill was a well-known radio and TV writer and director
No mention of "Jerry", but it ties Edmund R. to Jerry's career info
Daughter Sandra Hallet McGill (her mother's middle name in the marriage record)
Sandra married Smith (She is Sandra Hallett McGill Smith)

...I think that I can wrap this up into a note to explain the Edmund Robert / Jerry connection.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:25, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done, FloridaArmy, see what you think of the two notes.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:58, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CarolCeHenson Big Town has an article. Is the new info in notes because we aren't sure it's the same person?

I think we could explain her father's and husband's involvement in the theater business and her film career better. We should also probably note that two of her films were adaptations of plays, one was an adaptation of a poem, I think most or all involved her hubby? Haven't had a chance to investigate the other one.

The Arizona film article states it was one of the first feature films made in the U.S. She had major roles in several films. If we can establish it, noting her son also had a successful career in entertainment is an interesting tidbit. Thanks for looking into it. Draft:Hot Biskits is another interesting film history subject.. FloridaArmy (talk) 19:12, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FloridaArmy, I put the info about the son in the notes because having it in the body of the article would take up about one third of the article (too much), there are sources from primary sources, and yes, because it seems pretty likely that Jerry McGill is Lawrence and Gertrude's son, but we don't have anyone that has put that together in a secondary source.

Do you have sources for the information that you would like to add?

I am going to try to track down Gertrude Shipman's career to see what else is there from her theater days. So I will check that out and anything I find along the way is good, too.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:44, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FloridaArmy, I hope it is clear that I liked your ideas, and I wondered if you had reliable sources for that information. Seems good to me. I tried looking around for more about the father's role in the theatrical business when I worked on the Personal life section - but I wasn't finding anything - but I certainly could have missed it. I still think it might be good to merge this article with the husband's article, since they did so much together... and even most of the Personal life section relates in large part to McGill as well. Any sources that you have would absolutely be helpful!! What do you think about merging the two articles together? I am pinging DGG on this as well.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:56, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP is not a place for family histories. I don't consider most of the material in the above discussion of encyclopedic interest, and I removed that section from the article. I left in the small part that seems even slightly relevant to her work. And then I accepted the article. Good job on sourcing what needed sources, and it can be a good deal of satisfaction tracking down details even if we don't use them. DGG ( talk ) 23:46, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gotcha, I just added a short note that there may be a connection between Edmund Robert and Jerry McGill from the Waldo Celebrities source.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:06, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]