Jump to content

Talk:German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin/GA1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GA Review

[edit]

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs) 21:40, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]


I'll get to this shortly.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:40, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • No DABs, external links OK.
  • Images appropriately licensed.
  • Why is displacement in long tons when most everything else is metric?
    • Cause we're post WNT ;) Also, those are the figures Gröner gives them in.
      • The metric conversion is actually provided in the WNT for the Frogs and everyone else who uses that system ;-)
  • If available, actual pressure of her boilers is a good thing supplement "ultra-high pressure".
    • I'll have a look later to see if Gröner has the figure.
  • I'm a bit suspicious of your conversions as they're too rounded. I'd suggest that you either add a "|1" to your templates for all your meter to feet conversions or specify output in feet and inches.
    • Should be fixed now
  • Nmi or km for range figures?
    • Not sure how that got flipped in the infobox...
  • Too many "and"s 12 navalized Junkers Ju 87 "Stuka" dive bombers and thirty Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighters and Fieseler Fi 167 torpedo bombers
    • Nope, it was right - for some reason, Gröner lumps the Bf 109s and Fi 167s into the same figure - Reynolds does, however, so I'll fix it.
  • Missing a comma here: ten 10.5 cm SK C/33 guns—later increased to twelve—twenty-two 3.7 cm SK C/30 guns, and twenty-eight 2 cm guns
    • Hmm, where would you put it? We've exceeded my knowledge of grammar ;)
      • And maybe even my own. Ordinarily you'd have a comma after the 105s, but the emdashes complicate things as I'm not sure that I've ever seen an emdash immediately followed by a comma. Maybe ask Dank?
        • Let's ping him and see if he can lend us a hand: @Dank:, a little help please?
  • Gotta link for Wotan armor?
    • No, but I have a note on it somewhere - will dig it up.
  • I think that the term is usually "plunging attacks" rather than "vertical", but maybe that's just me.
    • Plunging fire is usually only used for gunfire, not aerial attacks, IMO - will switch it to "aerial" for clarity
  • Make the connection between Graf Zeppelin and Flugzeugträger A on first use. Probably also ought to translate the latter term as well.
    • Done and done.
  • heavier sturdier perhaps a comma? And here as well: According to Soviet records, on 19 March 1947 the Council of Ministers
    • Fixed both
  • 25-26 en dash please
    • Good catch - didn't find that when I was overhauling the text - this is why I prefer to write things from scratch...
  • Convert 5,500 lb and 180 mm.
    • Done
  • Clarify that the facts on her post-war fate given by Western historians were really speculations.
    • A good point.
  • Link warhead.
    • Done.
  • Format for the Whitley articles is inconsistent and incorrect, unless one is a journal issue and the other is the bound volume. If both are the latter then here's an example of the proper formatting: {{cite book|last=Campbell|first=N.J.M.|title=Warship|chapter=The Battle of Tsu-Shima, Parts 2, 3 and 4|editor=Preston, Antony|publisher=Conway Maritime Press|location=London|year=1978|volume=II|pages=127–35, 186–192, 258–65|isbn=0-87021-976-6}}
    • This is going to take some digging - can't remember if I have these or not.
      • The individual issues are kinda scarce and they're most readily available in bound format in libraries.
        • Yeah, that's more than likely where they came from - the trouble is getting the volume, page numbers, etc. I might just have to replace the citations to them. I have a couple of WI articles that might suit the purpose - traveling tonight, so maybe tomorrow morning.
          • I've got these books; the page numbers don't change since the magazines are bound into the book. Part I is in Vol VIII 0-85177-354-0 and part II is Vol. IX 0-87021-984-7. Pub is USNI.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:04, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
            • Thanks, updated the refs.
  • Magazines need ISSN #s and a few books need ISBNs or OCLC #s.

Comments by ÄDA-DÄP

[edit]

A few observations:

Design
  • The change from metric to imperial needs an explanation for the uninitiated, a few words on Washington, the Anglo-German Naval Treaty and the standard tonnage are in order, I guess.
    • Standard displacement should be linked, but I'm not sure that the rest of your comments are really necessary given the treaty had only a theoretical impact on the ship and her design.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:10, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Graf Zeppelin would be one of the few ships which were actually affected.ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 06:11, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Rarely implemented though.ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 06:11, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Construction and and cancellation
  • After the launch it would seem appropriate to call her Graf Zeppelin, the name change had nothing to do with the conquest of Norway.
    • Good idea.Green tickY
  • Footnote 14 (Luke, p. 50) does not check out. Weight, date and number of planes differ from the text.
    • Will have to check this - I don't have Luke myself.
  • Dönitz was Commander of Submarines until he replaced Raeder, so if my grammar doesn't fault me, the "former" should be dropped.
    • Works for me.Green tickY
  • Wouldn't "roadstead" merit a link?
    • SureGreen tickY
  • A "custodial crew" on a ship is called a skeleton crew, isn't it?
    • LinkedGreen tickY
  • Breyer is listed twice, published in 1989 (Schiffer) and in 2004. While the inline citation lacks a year, I guess it's the 2004 publication?
    • Removed the refs to Breyer per above.Green tickY

ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 18:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure if Luke is to be trusted on these. Marshall (Fn 15) gives much more detail on the raid, which conflicts with Luke's version, though.ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 06:11, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Don't have Marshall. Dunno about Parsec, but if you do, then I suggest fixing it yourself.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:09, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
All I have are snippets of the German translation on Google Books. Enough to falsify but not exactly RS, sorry. ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 18:19, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have either source, the material is from the version before I started working on the article. Nothing I have (Breyer, Schenk, etc.) goes into much detail on the raid. Parsecboy (talk) 22:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
More construction and cancellation
  • date of order (16 November 1935) is missing
    • Added.
  • the explanation for the 13 month delay is that Gneisenau had to be launched first to make room in slipway 1.
    • Added
  • re launching ceremony it might be worth mentioning that Göring gave the speech and Zeppelin's daughter christened the ship (Israel, 1994, pp.67-9).
    • Added.
  • the launch date is also significant (24th anniversary of the Battle of Falkland Islands).
    • Added
Wotan
according to Israel 1994, p.76, they used 20mm armor plating "Wotan hart neuer Art" (Wh n/A) on the flight deck, and "St 52 KM" for the rest reaching 45mm of strength near the elevators.
  • "Zerreißfestigkeit" would be tear resistance, wouldn't it? Wh had "95 Kpa per mm2"
  • Wotan was developed by Krupp for the German navy.

ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 06:11, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]