Talk:Gerald Finzi

Vegetarianism

I don't want to start out just deleting or changing things, but the line about his (non-)vegetarianism sticks out like a sore thumb. It appears to be not at all relevant to his life and work (and it isn't, as far as I know from what I know about Finzi) and it's borderline nonsensical, first claiming, de facto, that he was a vegetarian, only to point out that he wasn't, actually, and then listing some food items he regularly ingested. It's really borderline of a non sequitur. I suggest that we think about deleting the line or, if there's real cause to have it in there, flesh it out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlaurson (talk • contribs) 16:59, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Opus list

I added the complete opus list, but owing to a few peculiarities (like op.3 being comprised of two parts, and other things), its not as clear as it might be - could someone make it so that there is only one bullet per opus and the seperate compositions within each opus are indented?

fixed!

Is Aldbourne in Berkshire?

Under "1933-1939: Musical development", the article says that Finzi settled with his wife in Aldbourne, Berkshire, but I can't find an Aldbourne in Berkshire. My road atlas and Multimap only list an Aldbourne in Wiltshire (a little over 20 miles from Ashmansworth). Did the county boundary change in 1972 (see Local Government Act 1972) "move" Aldbourne to Wiltshire or is there some other problem?

Brother Francis 20:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Composers project review

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. I find that this article is Start-class; it has notable holes in the biographic section. The details are in my review on the comments page; questions and comments should be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 17:33, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup - June 2009

I've identified the following things to do in this article: --Lendorien (talk) 18:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

• Tonal issues - Article has an essay tone that needs to be corrected.
• Possible Original Research
• Sourcing - This article has almost zero sourcing. It makes unverified claims as to the subject's popularity.

Cause of death

I am a doctor (and occasional contributor to Wikipedia, but a regular contributor to ganfyd medical wiki), and am also in a choir, currently rehearsing a Finzi piece.

I was intrigued by the statements about his death. It would have been very unusual in the first half of the twentieth century to survive until middle age without having had chickenpox. Hodgkins disease, however, causes immune suppression, and can be associated with disseminated shingles (caused by reactivation of the virus that causes chickenpox - although at the time of his death this was not known - see the Hope-Simpson references at the ganfyd shingles page). This sounds like a more likely cause of death than primary chickenpox. I would be interested in knowing the source of the statement on this page about Finzi's death. --peter_english (talk) 09:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

The ?official Finzi web site confirms that he had Hodgkin's lymphoma, but makes no mention of chickenpox or shingles ("Finzi finally lost the fight against his illness and he died on September 27, 1956"). [http://www.biographybase.com/biography/Finzi_Gerald.html Biography Base mentions the chickenpox story ("In 1951, Finzi learned that he was suffering from the incurable Hodgkin's disease and had at most ten years to live... In 1956, on an excursion near Gloucester with Vaughan Williams, Finzi contracted chickenpox which was too much for his weakened state, causing severe brain inflammation").

In Gerald Finzi: his life and music By Diana M. McVeagh (p250_ my suspicions are supported: in September 1956 he had shingles, and "Then shingles, a virus-related disease, developed", followed by of "encephalitis" and death. This is far more consistent with what I would expect. --peter_english (talk) 09:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Interestingly, the McVeagh book mentions that, prior to his illness, Finzi had gone with "Uncle Ralph" (?Vaughan Williams - unfortunately the previous page is not available to internet browsers, and I do not have the actual book) into "the sexton's cottage", where "It didn't seem important that one of the sexton's children had chickenpox". There is a widespread suspicion that exposure to chickenpox can induce shingles. In contrast, the Hope-Simpson hypothesis suggests that exposure to chickenpox "boosts" immunity, delaying or preventing the onset of shingles... These two hypotheses are not altogether incompatible; but, while many doctors still believe that chickenpox can induce shingles in a susceptible individual, this is not supported by objective evidence, but rather by anecdote; and as chickenpox is very common (most people get it in childhood), many shingles patients will, by coincidence, have been recently exposed to chickenpox. --peter_english (talk) 10:00, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I have edited the page. I'm confident of what I've written. I've also edited the Disseminated herpes zoster page. I'm looking out some references, which I'll add later. --peter_english (talk) 10:39, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

COI declaration

I just corrected an external web address for Finzi's Friends that was already present, but declare that the organisation is a client of mine (I host their website). --Iantresman (talk) 15:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Why I edited the first paragraph of Finzi's biography as I did

After pointing out he was born in London, of parents of Jewish background, it was stated that he 'nevertheless' became a very "English" composer of his generation. He was English; being Jewish doesn't change this, and it was insensitive to imply this. If he were Christian, would one have said 'nevertheless'? Note that, on the other hand, the 'despite' which follows, in "[d]espite being an agnostic, he wrote some inspired and imposing Christian choral music," is reasonable since he was an agnostic (not to mention of Jewish background). Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hanamizu (talk • contribs) 07:37, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

• Comment: Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. Wrong. It is both. To emphasise this point, even the lede at Jews describes them as "an ethnoreligious group"--a distinct and discrete ethnic group. While it's borderline controversial because of the overtones of historical racism and alientation, an example is that of European jews...they never were accepted as a homogenous component of any ethnic group associated with a nation-state--there was always a separateness, a division based on ethnic lines. For example: German Jews and Germans are not the same ethnicity just because they share a common language and location, in fact they are two vastly different cultures--one of the requirements for being different ethnically. By comparison, a Somali-American who came as a refugee in the 1990s to Maine in the US (essentially still "Somali" in culture) is not considered "as American" as a WASPy Boston Brahmin descended from the Mayflower passengers. --ColonelHenry (talk) 15:44, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Gerald Finzi/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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==Composers Project Assessment of Gerald Finzi: 2009-01-29== This is an assessment of article Gerald Finzi by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano. If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down. Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status. ===Origins/family background/studies=== Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described? ok ===Early career=== Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? ok. what year was he married? Unclear where his income is coming from. (No professional/academic positions?) ===Mature career=== Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? Unclear where his income is coming from. (No professional/academic positions?) ===List(s) of works=== Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article. List appears complete. ===Critical appreciation=== Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)? Adequate. Some peacocky fan language. ===Illustrations and sound clips=== Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.) No images or sound. ===References, sources and bibliography=== Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references? Article has what look like decent references; only one citation. ===Structure and compliance with WP:MOS=== Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.) Lead needs expansion. ===Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review=== Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD) Article needs (more) images and/or other media (MOS:IMAGE) Article prose needs work (WP:MOS) (fan language) ===Summary=== This is a decent start of a biography, but is missing some things. Most obviously, it does not mention when he gets married (only that he does), and his children are not mentioned at all. It is also unclear what his sources of income were; the biography on his official web site lists some of these things -- presumably the reference works listed do as well. The musicological appreciation needs to have some balance, and use more encyclopedic language; right now it looks like the work of fans who've copied liner or program notes. Peacock statements are fine, but they should be properly attributed to the musicologists who make them -- the lack of inline citations here is a problem. Article is Start-class; factual holes need to be filled. Magic♪piano 17:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 16:06, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Oboe work with strings

Would be useful to add the Interlude for oboe and string quartet. Beautiful work. 2600:6C40:5900:6514:4C89:FFBE:28E5:7ED6 (talk) 16:08, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Dies Natalis vs Intimations at 3 choirs

The article says that it was Dies natalis which was delayed by the Outbreak of World War 2 and would have been performed at three Choirs festival - but this does not seem likely since it would not easily lie within the remit of three Choirs. it seems more likely that the work referred to is the intimations of Immortality. can anyone shed any further light on this? Lawrence18uk (talk) 09:28, 20 July 2024 (UTC)