Talk:Georgi Romanov

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by Launchballer talk 07:48, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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... that Georgi Romanov had a shootout loss in the 2022–23 KHL season even though he was credited with playing zero minutes that season?

Source: https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/392164/georgi-romanov

Reviewed:

Created by Blaylockjam10 (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC).[reply]

@Blaylockjam10: I studied the source and cannot find the hook. Can you lead me to it? Bruxton (talk) 02:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bruxton: It’s under “Regular Season (Complete Stats)”. It looks like it may only be visible on a computer. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 11:33, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like I need a premium membership to view. I will leave this to another reviewer. Bruxton (talk) 04:02, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If "S TEAM LEAGUE GP GD GAA SV% GA SV SO W-L-T TOI" and "2022-23 Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg KHL 1 4 - - - - 0 0-0-1 0:00" means what I think it means, then a) you don't need a premium membership to view and b) I think the hook checks out with the source, depending on what "W-L-T" means, although I haven't yet looked at the article. I'm a bit worried about the phrases "submit stats/facts" and "edit profile" I found on the source - what makes it reliable?--Laun chba ller 11:57, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Launchballer I saw the same, which made me feel like it was a contributor site. Honestly I was just lost on that page. I think W is win L is loss and T is tie. It is a clever hook which drew me to the nomination, but then I found myself lost for a half hour clicking on pull down menus until I got to a paywall. @BeanieFan11: may be able to help. Bruxton (talk) 14:55, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing the TOI part of the Elite Prospects link but based on how he played in the game that would make sense. NHL says that he was the goaltender for only the shootout portion in his only game, which would mean that he "officially" had zero minutes since the shootout isn't timed. (Also, I've come across Elite Prospects a number of times – they seem pretty reliable (don't think I've seen an incorrect stat, although I've only used them in writing ~10 hockey articles) and seem to have a staff – also cited ~20,000 times). I'd say it's good for approving as long as the article itself is fine. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:08, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blaylockjam10 I located the minutes played after being guided. Earwig determined that there is some minor WP:CLOP which needs to be addressed. Also probably not a DYK issue, but consider that we probably do not need a section for three words - it should be combined somewhere. Also the lead should introduce/summarize more of the article; right now it is a single sentence. The hook is interesting and the article is neutral with the correct inline citations. Created on April 19 nominated April 26 so the article is new enough and with 2344 the article is long enough. Bruxton (talk) 18:52, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Blaylockjam10: Please address the above. Z1720 (talk) 15:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bruxton and Z1720: What do you think of the article’s quality now? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 22:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the delay. Earwig is at 16.7% - clop was addressed. Personal life was expanded a bit more and the lead is now two sentences. Two sentences are close to a source, but I think we have addressed enough for a pass. Might make a good This might make a good quirky hook.^(?) Bruxton (talk) 18:57, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Blaylockjam10 and Bruxton: As written this article would deserve {{prose}} and {{subsections}}, and single-sentence WP:PARAGRAPHs should be avoided - could this be remedied?--Laun chba ller 14:28, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Its not written in list format? I also don't see the need of having a bunch of subsections in this brief article and how one would appropriately do it? BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:55, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It reads like one, see WP:PROSELINE.--Laun chba ller 15:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Launchballer and BeanieFan11: I agree that the article could be improved by combining sentences and I usually push for MOS changes, but many are not required by WP:DYKCRIT. Regarding sections, we sometimes feature single paragraph articles at DYK. I will go through it and also ping AirshipJungleman29 to see if they have an opinion. Bruxton (talk) 20:12, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles should be free from dispute tags. If an article deserves one, it can't run per WP:DYKTAG.--Laun chba ller 20:19, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

None of {{prose}}, {{subsections}} or {{too many sections}} are listed at Wikipedia:Template index/Disputes; I think Bruxton's alterations are sufficient. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:21, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My concern has been resolved.--Laun chba ller 20:55, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Blaylockjam10, Bruxton, and AirshipJungleman29: I'm not quite happy with the sourcing on the hook and article here. A fair amount of this article is sourced to this non-independent source and this stat block, both of which feel very less-than-DUE. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 09:21, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think his statistics and how he performed with his different teams is absolutely worth being mentioned in the article – whether or not its sourced to NHL.com. If we remove everything sourced to those we'd end up with only random portions of text without an accurate summary of his career – which I don't think would make sense. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- If you're right that the secondary independent sources don't come near giving a cohesive picture of the subject, I would honestly question how they could confer notability. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:42, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- From a source analysis, sources 1 and 7 are non-independent, while sources 2–6 and 8 (5 is borderline) don't provide significant coverage. I've notability-tagged the article. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - I don't think there's a question of notability – he's an NHL goaltender and there's a decent amount of coverage, e.g. this – what I am saying is that by using solely news sources we wouldn't get nearly as good a picture of his career as we would by also using sources such as NHL.com, which help paint the fuller picture. BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - Fair enough, but I think that we can't reasonably call this article a pass unless we use as many of the SIRS as are helpful and then use the non-independent sources to fill in the gaps where we have to. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:20, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      - What exactly do you mean by SIRS? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:28, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        secondary, independent, reliable sources :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:40, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a problem with this - that many readers (myself included) will not have a clue as to what a 'shootout loss' is. Is there at least somewhere on WP which can prode a useful link for this? I couldn't find one. Surely a DYK should be at least widely comprehensible as it stands.Smerus (talk) 13:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Smerus: Glossary of hockey terms#shootout? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:21, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @BeanieFan11: Thanks, that's a start, but what then is a 'shootout loss'?Smerus (talk) 16:48, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Losing the shootout? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:51, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

without action for a few weeks, I think it's time to mark this one for closure. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:15, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Theleekycauldron: Could you wait a little longer? I want to take a closer look at this. BeanieFan11 (talk) 12:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- sure, how's 'til the end of the month? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 12:21, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Theleekycauldron: How much would you like the article to stay away from stats / NHL sources? Currently used 11 times – what should I aim for? BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - @BeanieFan11: I'd stay away as much as possible, and use it only to fill in necessary details. I wouldn't use non-independent sources at all, since they don't fall under ABOUTSELF. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      - Given that the last edits to the article were made on June 10th and it's now the 1st of July, the nomination has probably now timed out. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:45, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]