Talk:George Soule (Mayflower passenger)

Date

Birthdate differs from Find-A-Grave. Lincher 12:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

your link only gives an estimate (1597) for Soule's birthdate, and it also cites a 1595 baptismal record as the best direct evidence of a birthdate. Because Soule was a teacher rather than a more traditional servant it might be expected that he was slightly on the older side (25 years old) Swampyank 17:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I must disagree. I am a Soule and our family history, "supported" by our family bible says otherwise. Goerge was born in Soule, Pays Basque. He emmigrated to England and eventually became the endentured servant of the captain of the Mayflower - Christopher Jones. Once they reached America he was freed from his endenture. He was of the 50% that survived the first winter and went on to father 9 children with his wife Mary.

Another George Soule

There's another less known George Soule, George Henry Soule. He wrote Ideas of the Great Economists. (New York, NY: Viking, 218 p.). as well as Prosperity Decade, From War to Depression in 1975. I just found a copy of the former, and read it. It was a good book. He's a liberal economist. He's got a reference in wikipedia at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_United_States . According to another page (http://www.psych.yorku.ca/femhop/Helen%20Dunbar.htm): "On 13 July 1940 she married George Henry Soule (1888-1970), an economist and editor of The New Republic." That's all I know about him. I've requested an article about him.

Dating Yourself

As pointed out, there's a pretty glaring discrepancy with regard to his year of birth here. The lead states c.1602 and later on it's 1595. The first is based on a marriage certificate, and the second is on a baptismal certificate, and inferred based on an assumption that he was at least 25 when he signed the Compact. I have difficulty believing that such a baptismal certificate exists and can be proven to be this George Soule. The marriage certificate could also be George's best guess as to how old he was. It has also been suggested that he was an employed teacher for Edward Winslow's children but Winslow had no children on the Mayflower. Was he a teacher for the More children? A servant to the captain? We'll never know the answer but the article should address this issue or it just looks sloppy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.239.72.120 (talk) 22:21, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for noticing that. There were indeed baptismal records for that time and before that time. Baptismal records are the most accurate. It was not unsual that the people themselves were not exactly sure how old they were. Richard More was not sure of his age as many others. It is in the records that we can ascertain what often they, themselves were not sure of. I will check into all of the questions and reply back here. Mugginsx (talk) 13:36, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, my wording was poor there. I meant how can a baptismal certificate be connected to a specific person with any certainty? According to the article no one even knows for sure where he was born. A brief glance over the Mayflower names shows that people used the same names over and over in a family. There could be a George Soule who had a son named George, and a sister who named her son George all after their grandfather George. A marriage certificate is definitely the person though, but like you mentioned, they might not know how old they are, or where they were born. I have two cousins with the same name as me and we're born across a five year period. If someone didn't know where I was born, they could find my cousin's baptismal certificate and think I was 5 years younger. However, my marriage certificate would state my correct age. As a side note, my interest here is that George's descendants went on to fight in the American Revolution, the War of 1812 and the 1837 rebellion in Upper Canada.99.239.72.120 (talk) 17:25, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate what you are saying. The historians who research these people research many places and many documents. They are very educated in these subjects. Some have dedicated their life finding the "correct" people from the "correct sources". It is true that many names are similiar and in some case, it is impossible to know certain facts. In those cases, it is stated as such. I would recommend some of these authors that are given as references in the article. Also some online sources such. As to online sources - as "a genealogical profile of George Soule" (or anyone else in the Mayflower series) provides detailed information. If you delve into their sources you will see their work. Another is "Pilgrim Village Sketch of George Soule" (again, or any other Mayflower name) which includes some of the same researchers. I can understand your questions, the same is true of medieval names, many names are the same. They are able to do it because they are scholars. That is my best answer.Mugginsx (talk) 18:31, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your kind patience and consideration. I thought of another possible fly in the ointment too. When a child died the parents could give to next child the same name to keep it in the family, so you could have a baptismal certificate for one George Soule, who then died in infancy, and the name George Soule was then given to his brother 5 years later in a different county. It must be a nightmare to research this even for the experts.99.239.72.120 (talk) 21:47, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Alternate spellings of his name

The alternate spelling was already mentioned in three places that are a matter of public record and therefore important to note.

Since many people were illiterate and their names were spelled phonetically, there are numerous alternate spellings for most notable people of the time. It would be unreasonable to list them all and since it was mentioned 3x already in the pertinent paragraphs that name the records the alternate spellings are in, I saw no need to place it a fourth time in the lead. Since people are looked up by their last name, the alternate spelling of the first name was unimportant. His name is spelled correctly on the Mayflower Compact. Mugginsx (talk) 10:48, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

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Early life

The last paragraph in the Early Life section needs sources for the claims it makes.

DNA work has definitively identified George Soule's parents? What DNA research? Who did the research, when was it done, where was it done, how was it done, etc.? The fact that Soule has descendants in Scotland and Australia does nothing to answer the question of his parents' identities; Soule has millions of descendants all over the world. If someone can finally and definitively identify Soule's parents, they'd make a lot of researchers very happy.

What link exists between Jan and Johannes Sol and George Soule? "Sol" and "Soule" are different surnames. The spelling isn't close enough to assume they're the same family.

The only linked source in this section regards the activities of Edward Raban, a page in a book ("Record of the celebration of the tercentenary of the introduction of the art of printing into Aberdeen by Edward Raban in the year 1622, 16th and 17th June 1922"), but that page doesn't even mention the information it's linked to in this article. In fact, it directly contradicts the information in the article (the book says it's unknown how Raban ended up in Scotland.) If the wrong page is provided as a source, the correct page needs to be found and the link updated. Even so, Raban's activities with Sol and Brewster are irrelevant to George Soule unless a link can be made between the Sol and Soule families.

I'd be as happy as anybody else if the questions about George Soule's ancestry have finally been answered, but I'd also be very surprised. If reliable and definitive documentation exists, it needs to be included in this article.

Unklscrufy (talk) 16:31, 30 January 2019 (UTC)