Talk:George Meikle Kemp/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 21:10, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Happy to review this article.

Review comments

This is a highly readable article, and the issues I have found are generally about the way it needs to be amended to fit with Wikipedia's manual of style and other guidelines relating to GA criteria. The first issue is...

...Linking

• See MOS:REPEATLINK, which states that "Generally, a link should appear only once in an article". There is a great little tool for spotting where duplicate links exist in an article here.

As an example, the links I found that need only to be linked once in the Early life section are: apprenticeship; Gothic architecture; millwright; Scotland, and not all in the section are: London; France; Scotland. Please go through the article and remove all the duplicate links. Please also go through the article and remove links as specified by MOS:OVERLINK. if i could leave that to you without having to list all the words, that would be great. Amitchell125 (talk) 17:18, 13 February 2022 (UTC)  Done

Lead section

• The lead section needs to be expanded (see MOS:LEAD).{{done}}
• Omit his parents from the infobox (they are not notable in their own right) Done

Excessive detail

• Many sections of the article have an excessive amount of detail, with redundant text that would not be missed if it was omitted. Examples from the Childhood and education section: an itinerant and impoverished shepherd working on the southern slopes of the Pentland Hills = ‘a shepherd’; (reported by Violet Aitchison née Kemp (1805-1889), Kemp's youngest sister can be omitted; moved from farm to farm in the valley to the south of the Pentlands,; and while carrying it out visited the – 'travelled to'; His innate mechanical and joinery skills also allowed him to build – 'He built'.

You could edit down this section and others by a third, to make the prose more succinct This is one of the basic criteria for a good article. Amitchell125 (talk) 17:30, 13 February 2022 (UTC)  Done

12 References

• There are a number of 19th century sources—can we manage without them, as they are so old and there are modern sources available?
• The census record is a primary source, and should be avoided.  Done

• Also, the marriages record from Ancestry (replace with the ODNB at https://www.oxforddnb.com/view/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-15327, perhaps) Amitchell125 (talk) 09:23, 20 February 2022 (UTC) Done

•  Not done The references are not consistently formatted – see WP:HOWCITE for help here. Amitchell125 (talk) 17:33, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Holding response to review

Thanks so much for your very useful comments. I shall make a start on addressing them tomorrow and hope to be finished within a few days. I am most grateful for what you have done so far.Vortexionio (talk) 16:10, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

@Vortexionio: No worries, if you could make a start on the above, it will mean the remaining comments I have yet to post can be addressed reasonably quickly. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:30, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Further comments

1 Childhood and education

• Ref 2 (Scotsman) is not needed here (being over a century old, and alongside 3 other perfectly good references Done
• The article should include Kemp’s full name in this section Done
• I would avoid giving people’s dates in brackets – it has not been done consistently throughout the article, and is not necessary Done
• Link master-wright (Millwright, already linked in the next section, so the link should be moved up) Done
• At the age of fourteen – 'At the age of 14'? (for the sake of consistency, minor point) Done
• Comma after for four years (minor point) Done
• I would amend As part of his duties he repaired agricultural machinery and saw foundations laid to ‘When at Moy Hall he repaired agricultural machinery and saw foundations laid’; this would improve the prose, as 'seeing' is not a duty Done
• I would amend Self-taught, he became highly practiced in wood-modelling to something like ‘He taught himself to be a highly-skilled wood modeller.’ Done
• Link classics (Ancient literature) Done
• when travelling is redundant Done
• when looking for work and studying – amend to ‘so as to obtain work or study’? Done

2 Early career

• Link plan; draughtsmanship (Architectural_drawing#Drafting); geometry Done
• Here, and elsewhere, the images should not be enlarged. In this section, if ‘300px’ is omitted, the image will be correctly sized. Done Done throughout the article.
• A citation is needed for the sentence starting His expertise in this work, although I’m not sure the sentence itself is actually needed. DoneAfter due consideration I decided to keep the sentence, so I provided a citation.
• he began an intense study – needs to be amended to ‘Kemp began an intense study’ (it’s a Wikipedia thing, paragraphs should refer to the topic – Kemp – by name, and not just have pronouns. This needs to be done in a consistent way throughout the article.) Done Done throughout the article.
• of the Cathedral there - ‘of Glasgow Cathedral’ (linked) Done
• The paragraph starting In 1815 he moved to John Cousin's building is short, and would be better off being moved up or down to join another one. Done
• From Manchester is redundant Done
• commas after went to London; From London; in 1825'' Done
• disliked it - ‘disliked the city’ Done
• Is gothic not meant to be ‘Gothic’ throughout? Done Yes, and checked rest of article.
• (not as reported by his first biographer, Thomas Bonnar, because of the death of his mother;[6] she had died some ten years previously) The near relative is thought to have been Kemp's elder brother, Thomas Kemp (1792-1841), Clerk of Works to the Duke of Buccleuch. – I would put this in a separate Notes section, as it’s interesting, but a bit off-topic. Done

3 Edinburgh

• If possible, link unsolicited (Proposal_(business)#Unsolicited_proposal)? Done Rewritten.
• comma either side of but he had not received specific training Done
• only three other men – do we know who the men were? Done Yes. Names given in a Note.
• his new family – what new family? Done Rewritten, though, of course, full details of his marriage and children have been relocated to above this phrase.
• Link cabinet-maker (Cabinetry) Done
• comma after a Freemason (not in capitals); and Melrose Abbey{{done}} Wikipedia Freemason article uses capital F for Freemason throughout, so I have kept it.

Understood. AM

• he was not noted – by whom? I have looked in vain for this phrase.

Mystery... AM

• attracted considerable attention – what attention, in the press? Ditto above.

Also a mystery... AM

• Seeking to help him, his elder brother, Thomas, secured a job for needs copy editing to improve the prose (perhaps ‘Kemp’s brother Thomas sought to help him by securing him a job for’) Done
• I would amend He then commissioned Kemp in 1831 to make a wooden architectural model of his (Burn's) design to something like ‘In 1831 Kemp was commissioned to make a wooden architectural model of Burn's design’ Done
• Consider simplifying and had even built a large model of the cathedral in wood to something along the lines of ‘built a large wooden model’ Done
• his detractors – have not been previously mentioned Done
• In 1836 – it would be better if these words were put before the citations Done
• Much of the second paragraph lacks references Done

4 The Scott Monument

• link pseudonym; clerk of works (omitting the capitals); foundation stone (Cornerstone) Done
• I would omit leading (twice in the first paragraph, see MOS:PEACOCK) Done
• Imo the quotes used in “John Morvo” are not needed Done
• was described – the person being quoted should be named here Done
• the 50–guinea prizes - 50–guinea is redundant Done
• Amend the other two winners and many of the losing competitors to ‘many of the competitors’? Done
• I would omit Several outstanding architects contributed as unnecessary Done
• It seems awkward to put the conversion into the quote, could it not be paraphrased instead? Done
• Kemp's approved builder, David Lind, was chosen. Is Lind notable enough to be included here (in other articles, construction workers tend not to be) DoneNo, not notable, so excluded
• for a large city seems unneeded, as any town or city in those days was a smoky place Done
• bringing in – ‘which gave him’ sounds better imo Done
• Well-liked does not have an hyphen Done
• he was not grand needs to be clarified Done
• comma after in his own way Done
• some 52 feet – some is redundant Done
• However, he at first lost an argument about the height of the monument; his original plans were for a height of 184 feet (56 metres) rather than the 135 feet (41 metres) determined upon by the committee because of insufficient funds. Despite this, at Kemp's insistence the organisers relented and allowed him to build to his original dimensions and in the end even slightly higher. - needs to be simplified to something like ‘Kemp succeeded in persuading the organising committee to keep the monument’s height at around 184 feet (56 metres).’ Done
• I would replace the day being declared with ‘and’ After looking again at my research on this point I feel it is important to note that a special and unique public holiday was given, so I have kept the phrase and added 'especially', but if you disagree, I am happy to remove it.

Happy with your decision. AM

• The monument began to rise above the ground in 1841 is redundant, because of the text that follows Done
• Delete huge as a meaningless term in this context{{done}}
• The phrase Edinburgh society needs to be clarified for readers unfamiliar with British social history Done I think I've found a way to do this.
• The last paragraph is largely unreferenced Done

5 Death

• The image is of an unremarkable headstone, and doesn’t help explain the text in any way, so I would omit it.{{done}}
• The first 3 sentences of this section should be moved into the section above, as they relate to the monument’s construction and not to Kemp’s death Done
• However, in Edinburgh and in the fog are all redundant here Done
• The grave is in the centre of the first southern section, facing the Scott Monument. The position of the grave is not notable, so this sentence should be omitted Done

6 Legacy

• Despite his death Kemp's masterpiece continued to be built, - ‘After Kemp’s death, the construction of the monument continued’? Done
• The height was increased to 200 feet 6 inches (61.11 metres), adding to the elegance of the Monument. - ‘It was made more elegant when the height was increased to 200 feet 6 inches (61.11 metres)’’? Done
• Avoid now (see MOS:RELTIME) Done
• 35–45,000 – ‘35,000–45,000’{{done}}
• Link William Bonnar (and remove the link in the Kemp likenesses section) Done

7 Personal life

• Link seamstress (Dressmaker) Done
• The first paragraph needs to be moved into the Edinburgh section, and the last paragraph should be in the Death section. Done
• £202 18s. 6D – use 'around {{Inflation|UK|203|1844|fmt=eq|orig=yes|cursign=£}}' Done

8 Kemp memorials; 9 Kemp likenesses

• Link plaque (Commemorative plaque) Done
• The two sections should be moved into the Legacy section (entitled 'Memorials' and 'Likenesses'), as they belong there Done
• I would have all the text in 'Kemp likenesses' placed within a single paragraph. Done
• Part of the third paragraph of 'Kemp likenesses' is not cited Done

10 Kemp biographies

• As all the text here is duplicated information provided in the References section, this section should be deleted Done

11 Kemp's birthplace

• This section seems imo trivial. At the most I would add a note (placed within the Childhood and education section after He was born on 25 May 1795 at Hillriggs Farm above the town of Biggar in Lanarkshire.

The information could be summarised to something like ‘There has been controversy over Kemp’s actual place of birth since his first biographer, Thomas Bonnar, wrote in 1892 that Kemp was born at Moorfoot in Midlothian. In the mid-1980s, the Biggar Museum Trust established that Kemp was born at Hillriggs rather than at Moorfoot. Since rewriting its entry for Kemp in 2004, the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography has stated that Kemp was born at Hillriggs.’ Done

On hold

This is a long list, but many of the issues I have raised can be easily sorted. Please include a  Done ({{done}}) after addressing each comment, and I will cross out the comment if I think it has been addressed. I will add a N if we need to discuss the comment further.

I'm putting the article on hold for a week until 28 February to allow time for the issues raised to be addressed. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 13:52, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Passing

The article is now greatly improved and is in great shape. Re-reading it, I've made a few minor amendments (please revert them if I have made an error). Also, I'm wondering if some of the shorter paragraphs could be combined (but it's not GA). Otherwise, the article has now got to the stage where it can be passed. Congratulations!