Talk:George Floyd protests in Minnesota

Move request

This article should go back to something akin to its original name Twin Cities Riot 2020. The current name is unwieldy.TheMemeMonarch (talk) 04:40, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Oppose: They are the George Floyd Protests. Discussion was extensive and the decision was made on George Floyd Protests. Kire1975 (talk) 05:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Rebuttal I agree with the name, should it focus on the Twin city though? The rest of Minnesota is fairly uneventful.TheMemeMonarch (talk) 13:56, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Oppose: Minnesota is more recognized and better understood. 9gfg06w2 (talk) 20:02, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Oppose: I would suggest "George Floyd protests in Minneapolis–St. Paul" in place of a reference to the Twin Cities, similar to the section in the George Floyd Protests article. Less notable events that occurred in Duluth and elsewhere seem to be misfitting among the detailed descriptions of events in Minneapolis–St. Paul. VikingB (talk) 21:34, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - Minnesota is more recognized and better understood. --Jax 0677 (talk) 00:37, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• No. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:54, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Oppose: RS report that the murder of George Floyd has sparked people to protest against years of systemic racism and police brutality; they are not rioting. BetsyRMadison (talk) 18:34, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Comment my opinion is that Minnesota as a whole and the Twin Cities should receive separate articles. Minnesota should list the protests that happened by city, with Minneapolis/St. Paul linking to their own article. Songwaters (talk) 13:13, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

• Second that comment. "George Floyd protests in Minneapolis-St. Paul" and "George Floyd protests in Minnesota" would be a similar to how protests articles are for Illinois and Chicago and New York (state) and New York City. VikingB (talk) 16:36, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Moved

I moved the article to George Floyd protests in Minnesota; my rationale was: "To match the parent article George Floyd protests from which this one was split. Please also see Talk:George_Floyd_protests#Requested_move_29_May_2020_(3), where the "riots" name was discarded in favor of "protests". --K.e.coffman (talk) 04:44, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

WikiProject Black Lives Matter

I've created WikiProject Black Lives Matter for interested editors. Thanks, ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:09, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Riots

Should their be a subsection dedicated to the Riots in Minneapolis or should we dedicate a page about the Riots in Minneapolis? And I know that they mentioned it throughout the article, but I feel that their should be a page or at least a subsection of the page designated for the riots. If you look at previous riots your see that they either get their own page, or have a subsection in the articles. See List of incidents of civil unrest in the United States. BigRed606 (talk) 05:38, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Because I feel that the protest and the Riots should be separate. BigRed606 (talk) 05:53, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Support use of the word Unrest You make a good point. If there isn't a separate page created for the riots, I think a better title for this page would be "George Floyd Unrest in Minnesota". This would encapsulate both riots and protests. Many sources also indicate that several of what may have started as protests quickly descended into riots, especially during the nighttime hours. MWise12 (talk) 03:06, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• No to both People are protesting against the murder of George Floyd by a white police officer, which has sparked national protests against years of systemic racism & police brutality. BetsyRMadison (talk) 18:54, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

If a protest turns into a riot there's nothing wrong with calling it a riot. Certainly not all of the protests turned violent, but to act like none did is observably false. MWise12 (talk) 02:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

At a loss why anyone would claim that riots weren't taking place. The peaceful protests are patriotic acts of those who have been wronged or feel others have been wronged. The rioters, vandals, & arsonists, on the other hand, are criminals. Both are on public display & being widely reported on. Why wouldn't they both be worthy of mention? It has been reported that the Floyd family has even come out against the violence. Codron (talk) 05:40, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

To Codron MWise12 - The two questions being asked is: 1) should be a subsection for "Riots In Minneapolis" and 2) should there be a WP article on it. I answered those 2 questions.

RS report that the overwhelming majority of protesters are/were peacefully protesting. I do not feel WP editors should eclipse from the protests against years of police brutality and systematic institutional racism with "riots" that we do not even know who started. For example, WP editors do not eclipse from the colonist's protests against the years of oppression by King George by focusing on the colonist's violent protests & riots that led to war.

• There were protests and violent riots over the Stamp Act of 1765. Arsonists, rioters, and vandals burned down homes and shops. Violent rioters carried effigies of public officials then cut off the head of the effigy causing public officials to fear for their lives to such a degree they quit their jobs. In some cases, rioters tarred and feathered "loyalists" and employees of the Custom service. Yet, WP editors do not call the colonial arsonists, rioters, and vandals: "criminals" even though that is what they were, criminals committing violent crimes. And WP does not have a separate page titled "Stamp Act Riots."
• The Boston Tea Party was a violent riot where rioters & vandals illegally destroyed over $1 Million dollars (in today's money) worth of private property. Yet, WP does not have a subsection or separate WP article called: "Boston Tea Party Riots."

While the overwhelming majority of colonists protested peacefully, and the militant group Sons of Liberty who led most of the protests did denounce the violence, this country, America, was literally founded off of violent riots and protests so I have no problem with describing riots in the article, and, I see no reason to eclipse the protests by changing the focus to riots. Plus, WP editors do not know who started the riots. For example, did protesters start the MPD 3rd Precinct fire or did some guy, Brandon Wolfe, who wanted to steal police gear?

I hope I have sufficiently answered both of your concerns. BetsyRMadison (talk) 13:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose That would require developing criteria by consensus of what is a "protest" and what is a "riot" and rigidly maintaining the content of each section in the article. The series is named George Floyd protests. More detailed articles by locale are named "George Floyd protests in [fill in the blank]." If anything, this article under covers developments day by day in the marches and rallies, which partially explain why certain areas ended up with property destruction as they were adjacent to police precincts that were a focal point of gatherings at certain inflection points. This article also under covers nearly continuous gatherings of people at East 38th Street and Chicago, among other gatherings.VikingB (talk) 19:37, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

References

Accuracy of Star Tribune damage reports is very questionable to me

I currently live in Richfield and am questioning why the damage of "570 businesses" has not spread to my neighborhood near the Hub shopping center yet.Mancalledsting (talk) 20:51, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

What is your point? Have you walked down Lake Street? VikingB (talk) 23:30, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

No original research per WP:NOR Anon0098 (talk) 02:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Please explain why the supposedly looted Walgreens doesn't look looted

Just noticed even that "looted" Walgreens pictured looks pretty unscathed, with no broken glass, including the door glass, and only graffiti which I didn't notice until closer observation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Minnesota#/media/File:Looted_Walgreens_-_Protest_and_riot_aftermath_on_west_Lake_Street_(49945567788).jpg. Even one portion of the right door glass is spray-painted and not even one open window, which also doesn't have broken glass, doesn't look like it suffered the trauma that one would suspect from a large break-in.Mancalledsting (talk) 22:32, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

This Walgreens was looted. That picture is from the first morning after. The door was forced open. You can see some things that look out of place in the entrance and some packaging scattered about. It was not properly secured and it was further looted before being burned to the ground in subsequent days. The photo is not the most dramatic example, but that Walgreens was looted, took damage, then burned down. VikingB (talk) 23:15, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Looting is different from damaging, arson, etc. There are reports of theft from inside. Again, no original research please Anon0098 (talk) 02:48, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Move to George Floyd protests in Minneapolis–St. Paul

I have gone ahead and split the Minneapolis–St. Paul protests into their own article, and rewrote this article to focus on cities outside the area. Songwaters (talk) 18:25, 11 June 2020 (UTC)