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Clarify, please

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Bridgman used box forms to represent the major masses of the figure (head, thorax, and pelvis) which he would tie together with gestural lines and produce to create "wedges" or simplified interconnecting forms of the body.

As the only clue to Bridgman's technique on the page, this leaves the general reader none the wiser. Please elucidate. Valetude (talk) 19:41, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Citations

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What is the citation" Opitz 1986", this is a change in citation style from the existing article and there is no actual book or reference listed. Jooojay (talk) 06:41, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see, it's suppose to be "Opitz, Glenn B, Editor, Mantle Fielding's Dictionary of American Painters, Sculptors & Engravers, Apollo Book, Poughkeepsie NY, 1986" - but someone has shortened it with out having a main refernce list. Since this would be a fundamental change, I suggest we change the citation style back to the existing. Jooojay (talk) 06:43, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Change it if you wish but I was taught that when I use a book as a source more than once in an article to use the shortened form. Look around, I am pretty sure that this is what we want to stick with. Carptrash (talk) 06:49, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Carptrash: if you take a look at WP:CITE, WP:CITESTYLE, WP:CITEVAR -- "Editors should not attempt to change an article's established citation style merely on the grounds of personal preference, to make it match other articles, or without first seeking consensus for the change." there isn't one style of citations for Wikipedia. The previous existing style of citations for this article was inline. If you want to make a change, we should have a discussion about it here first. Jooojay (talk) 16:48, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Right. I started editing this article in 2009, you started 3 or 4 days ago, but we need to do it your way. I leave the article to you. Carptrash (talk) 20:33, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Carptrash: nobody owns anything on Wikipedia. These additions of a the citation style happened a few days ago - they are not historical. This ask isn't anything personal, so please don't make it such, I was looking to have a discussion. Jooojay (talk) 20:56, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion is, how about I do citations how I like and you do them how you like? When I have the same source - in this case Opitz - being used as often as it is here it (to me) cries out for a shortened form. I am not a big one for quoting the rules or guidelines or whatever, so when that starts I typically leave. But am always willing to talk about it. I came back to this article because someone wanted more references. Okay, I did some and I just found 2 of the 4 or 5 Bridgman books I have in my library to see if i could dredge up some references besides just about his students. But let's chat about this first. Carptrash (talk) 21:11, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I understand if are not interested in read any of the WP links I added, but it gives us the general guidelines so we can edit here. One of the links I had added above talks about how we need consistency of citation style on Wikipedia within each article, which is why I suggested we use this talk page. Typically when you use the shortened form for citations, you make a new section dedicated to the full citation of that source. It takes a lot more effort to do it this way, esp. since we would need to re-do all the rest of our citations to follow this new style. I was the person that had tagged this article for needing more citations, and I am the same person that thanked you for your contributions as well. A few days ago this article only had two poor citations, together we improved it. And I hope we continue to keep improving it, Bridgman deserved more than a WP stub. I am not sure I understand your comment about the sources, but just a reminder we cannot use Bridgman's self authored books as citation since that is a primary source, per WP:USEPRIMARY, WP:RS. Jooojay (talk) 22:28, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here we go again with the rules. " we cannot use Bridgman's self authored books as citation " I found some good stuff in the "Forward" written by someone else, and quotes from him about anatomy in different art styles, but no. I appreciate your improvements and your thanks. Carptrash (talk) 22:38, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Date of birth and place of birth discrepancies

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I am adding a note here because there are some discrepancies based on citations for George B. Bridgman's date of birth (1864[1][2][3][4][5][6] vs. 1869[7] vs. 1865[8] vs. November 5, 1865, the latter was the existing DOB on the article without a citation), and place of birth (Byng, Ontario, Canada[9][10] vs. "Western Canada"[11] vs. Bing, Mouk County, Canada[12]). I was not able to find any references online to a "Bing, Mouk County, Canada" existing, so perhaps it was a typo. I have added related citations here in attempts to facilitated conversations and/or determinations. Jooojay (talk) 06:07, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "ULAN Full Record Display (Getty Research)". www.getty.edu. Retrieved 2020-09-30.
  2. ^ "Bridgman, George Brant, 1864-1943". VIAF.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  3. ^ "George Brant Bridgman". www.albrightknox.org. Retrieved 2020-09-30.
  4. ^ "The Library of Congress, LC Linked Data Service: Authorities and Vocabularies". id.loc.gov. Retrieved 2020-09-30.
  5. ^ "George B. Bridgman - Illustration History". www.illustrationhistory.org. Retrieved 2020-09-30.
  6. ^ "Bridgman, George Brant 1864-1943". OCLC WorldCat Identities.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  7. ^ Government of Canada, Canadian Heritage. "Artists in Canada". app.pch.gc.ca. Retrieved 2020-09-30.
  8. ^ "George Bridgman". www.askart.com. Retrieved 2020-09-30.
  9. ^ McMann, Evelyn de Rostaing (2003-01-01). Biographical Index of Artists in Canada. University of Toronto Press. p. 31. ISBN 978-0-8020-2790-0.
  10. ^ Government of Canada, Canadian Heritage. "Artists in Canada". app.pch.gc.ca. Retrieved 2020-09-30.
  11. ^ "George Bridgman Art Teacher, Dies". timesmachine.nytimes.com. The New York Times. December 17, 1943. Retrieved 2020-09-30.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  12. ^ Love, Richard H.; Peters, Carl William (1999). Carl W. Peters: American Scene Painter from Rochester to Rockport. University Rochester Press. p. 336. ISBN 978-1-58046-024-8.

References

  1. ^ McGlauflin, Alice Coe, ed., ‘’Who’s Who in American Art 1938-1939 vol.2’’ , The American Federation of Arts, Washington D.C., 1937 p. 74
  2. ^ Falk, Peter Hastings, ed. , Who Was Who in American Art, Sound View PressMadison Connecticut, 1985 p. 77
  3. ^ Opitz, Glenn B, Editor, Mantle Fielding's Dictionary of American Painters, Sculptors & Engravers, Apollo Book, Poughkeepsie NY, 1986 p/. 101
OK, I am still not seeing any "Bing, Canada" or "Monk county" or "county of Monk" in Canada. Byng Inlet is located in Eastern Canada, not Western Canada. Since it's still unclear I removed the city of birth and left it simply as Canada for now. And added circa to the DOB: Nov. 05, 1864. Jooojay (talk) 03:40, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I took the "c." out. His published says 1864, that's good enough.Carptrash (talk) 05:24, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Carptrash: there are three different published years of birth, the most reliable source, being the Canadian government has his date of birth as 1869. Jooojay (talk) 05:47, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A fairly recent Master'sThesis (https://www.worldcat.org/title/artists-of-influence-americas-great-teaching-artists/oclc/793207080&referer=brief_results) says 1864. Carptrash (talk) 05:55, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Carptrash: we cannot use thesis or original research here. My point is there is no consensus. Jooojay (talk) 06:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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