Talk:Gender differences in Japanese

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Gender studies

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 16 February 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): EmmWilliam.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:07, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How to be polite then?

For example, how am I supposed to talk to my superiors without sounding like a homosexual? If I use masculine words they might be considered offensive. 87.121.129.41 (talk) 10:16, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Avoid any gender specified elements from your speech: it may sound too impolite or inappropriate to the situation if unfortunate. The polite way of speech is unisex (so the article also read I think). Even native Japanese cannot distinguish female from male based on their written-up colloquial discourse, for instance, SNS writing. --Aphaia (talk) 05:59, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do not get deeply involved in this matter

Even if there are some gender-related words, the degree of gender-difference in Japanese is almost the same as Thai; it appears the first person pronouns are currently associated with speaker's gender, but there is no other significant difference in real speech. After all, this topic itself is a mere gender-stereotyped conception that can only be seen in some creations, therefore we must consider gender issues and grammar rules separately, and prospective learners don't have to study such a gender-based diction. Actually I'm concerned that joseigo and danseigo will become obstacles to access to the original shape of traditional Japanese even for the native speakers. Head jockaa (talk) 18:29, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Head jockaa: What does this text mean?: Nowadays using these stereotyped dictions for symbolizing speaker's attribute itself has started to become a target for criticism. I am not able to parse this text to determine any meaning. Which text from the referenced source directly supports this text? - Ryk72 ^talk 11:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The referenced source appears to be an opinion piece or blog; does not appear to be a reliable source for statements of fact. The text itself is poorly phrased, such that the meaning is not clear. e.g. What does "attribute" refer to? "Target for criticism". Who is doing the criticising? I am removing the text pending discussion, additional sourcing, and formulation of better phrasing. - Ryk72 ^talk 10:50, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for my hasty editing (and my poor English). I think the most reliable researchers in this field are https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/中村桃子_(言語学者) and https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/金水敏 , but most documents about Japanese are rather idealistic so I have trouble finding appropriate citations. Searching by "女言葉" in Twitter is the only way to know the actual situation and "critisisms". Head jockaa (talk) 18:27, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harz Jorden, rough—soft

An anonymous user recently removed the reference to Japanese: The Spoken Language, calling it "kind of nonsensical when the direct translations are “mens speech” and “womens speech”. I undid that edit, preferring reliably published sources to random Wikipedians' sense of propriety. However, I don't have a copy JSL – I don't know if I lost mine – and I vaguely recall the differences being described as upper class—lower class. Can someone please check whether the lead section of this article accurately reflects that book, or else cite another source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cnilep (talk • contribs) 03:42, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pronouns in section "Onabe and transgender male speakers"

The section "Onabe and transgender male speakers" cites work by Claire Maree, and use(d) the pronoun himself in reference to an onabe bar host. A hidden comment note(d), "NOTE: RS use he/him pronouns for the interviewee so the wiki article will reflect that." User:Kazlkid changed himself to themself, presumably on the assumption that this would be the preference of a person who does not identify as a man or woman. I don't know the anonymized speaker's expressed preferences, but I know Claire Maree's reputation as a careful and respected scholar. I would therefore recommend following the original source unless there is a clear and specific reason not to. Cnilep (talk) 03:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]