Talk:Gelato/Archive 1

Archive 1

Flavours

I remember Gelatarias having a number of unique flavors. This include sorbets and durian. Though that is served in Singapore. Could the article be expanded like the origins of gelato and things about gelato. --Terence Ong ^Talk 15:35, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Recipe

The tone of the recipe section seems a bit too "demanding", for lack of a better word. The writer claims that basically, his/her way is the ultimate, one-and-only way. This recipe may yield gelato thats preferable to the author, but can we say that this is the only way to make gelato? I think it just needs to be re-worded to be more lenient. Something like perhaps, "The tradition/popular/usual/etc way to prepare gelato is...." I believe there is somewhat of a gray area in distincting certain foods, and it would be inappropriate to give gelato such a definition. Teimu.tm 22:13, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Notable gelaterias??

How can we decide whether a gelateria can be considered "notable" or not?? the list is increasing day after day, and I don't think all of them are so important to merit a space in an encyclopedia... I live in Rome and I agree about all the Roman gelaterias in the list, but I think we have to agree about a principle that can be verified. Moreover: for such an Italian product there are 7 Italian gelaterias but 32 only in the USA!! that looks quite strange... Alessio Damato 10:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Other uses of term

What's with the section linking Gelato to game theory? I'm not entirely convinced, and added an unsourced tag - if nobody can back it up, I'm deleting it. Judd870 02:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Buddha and the Italian Trader

I see that my edits have been removed multiple times now and construed as vandalism. May I ask why the popular folk legend regarding the Italian trader who visited India and presented Buddha with a bowl of gelato has been deemed inappropriate? In my second edit, I included a comment specifying that this event constitutes a piece of folklorific literature, and that it's historical status is extremely dubious. I included this comment in order to avoid any possible confusion about the historicity of the event. - Morris Kung 4.228.141.60 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 23:54, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

It it likely that this is reverted because it is a fairly implausible sounding story with no references that it exists, even as a folktale, anywhere but in your edits. If you would like this section to be kept, please provide a reliable source (books, academic journal articles, newspaper articles all generally preferred over blogs or websites) for this article. See WP:CITE for more information on how to cite sources. — λ (talk) 00:20, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm on it right now. I have one citation up and I believe I can find a few more, if necessary. The story was originally told to me by the manager of a gelateria in Mumbai. They serve a coconut gelato called "Buddha's Delight," and when I asked why it was called that, he explained that it was a little tribute to this story. I have since confirmed the story in a couple of books of Indian folklore, including the one I've cited in the article. - Morris. 4.228.141.60 (talk)

I have moved the section in question here on the talk page until reliable sources can be provided. I get no Google hits when searching for any reference to this legend. The reference provided is incorrect; "Folktales from India" by A.K. Rammanujan contains no references to gelato, and page 53 is a story called "The Monkey and the Crocodile". — λ (talk) 00:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Gelato in Popular Culture

A popular Indian legend holds that an Italian trader visited India during the time of Buddha and presented the Buddha with a bowl (or cup) of Gelato. The Buddha is said to have been pleased with the gift and to have shown his gratitude by passing on a corpus of Buddhist teaching to the Italian trader, with the intent that the Italian would bring the Buddha's wisdom back to his homeland. The legend holds that the trader died during a storm at sea on his return voyage, thus preventing Buddhism from reaching Italy for several centuries. The historicity of this story, however, is extremely dubious, and it must be viewed as folklore.^[1]. In tribute to this legend, a popular gelateria in the Pali Hills section of Mumbia serves a tasty coconut gelato called "Buddha's Delight."

Citations

^[1] A.K. Rammanujan, "Folktalkes from India" (p. 53)

WPFood assessment

C-class mid-level article on one of the major ice cream types.

This article need to be properly cited using reliable sources to be made a B-class article. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 07:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

A few changes

I alphabetized the list of flavors and removed the phrase referring to gelato shops that use gelatin as being rogue. it seemed a little too opinionated for an encyclopedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.65.212.165 (talk) 19:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Origins of the word "gelato"

I would like to know if there are any other meanings/origins of the word "gelato", on the main page it says "gelato as stated above simply means frozen" but i did not see the "as stated above" and would like to know more about theother meanings/origins

thanks in advance122.124.3.154 (talk) 07:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC) wen

Hi, "gelato" (as an adjective) just means 'frozen' or ' icy'. No particular meanings attached to it, I think. Gioland71 (talk) 02:29, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

"Gelato" means "frozen" or "icy cold", but in the meaning of temperature. To say "frozen" in the meaning of an actual condition, an italian speaker would use the word "congelato". --217.203.138.246 (talk) 04:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

"Gelato" is the past participle of the verb "gelare", which means "to freeze". It derives from the word "gelo", which means ice/cold. So gelato actually means frozen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.180.218.27 (talk) 12:05, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Sources for Information

Almost no accurate information in the form of books and articles has been published about gelato. Travel guides and cook books are notoriously unreliable sources for details.

The best sources for reliable details about making gelato are courses offered by manufacturers including Carpigiani's Gelato University in Bologna and Pregel's, a base/emulsifier manufacturer, which is offered in North Carolina. Hoursmany123 (talk) 21:37, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Confusion

Resolved

What is 'Italy's regional'? If it is a regional foodstuff in Italy would it not help to say which regions? If it is a national dish, similiarly should this not be stated. It is unclear at the mment which it is.Sam1930 (talk) 18:16, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

"Churning during the freezing process incorporates air into the mix. The added air is called overage. Unlike most commercial ice cream, which contains up to 100% overage,"

Ice cream can be be 100% air? o_o —Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.46.227.138 (talk) 23:00, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, just another way the ice cream companies ae screwing us, along with the 1.5 quart "half gallons" they sell. I've restored the sourced 50%. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:26, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I was surprised too, but I think i got it now. Maybe what they mean is, that "commercial" ice cream contains as much air, as it contains other stuff.

Gelato in Egypt

Where did ancient Egyptians get ice and snow? Vgy7ujm (talk) 18:03, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

In Egypt. Per Egypt#Climate: "Snow falls on Sinai's mountains and some of the north coastal cities such as Damietta, Baltim, Sidi Barrany, etc. and rarely in Alexandria. Frost is also known in mid-Sinai and mid-Egypt." - SummerPhD (talk) 02:22, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Some questions of composition

This article reads like a bad translation from another language. As other editors note (vide infra) there are awkward phrases or some that are difficult to follow if not completely meaningless. It would be helpful if someone knowledgeable about gelato and capable of writing serviceable English were to give this piece a haircut and a shoeshine. Josephlestrange (talk) 02:35, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Obvious Bias

This whole article seems to be about how superior gelato is to "conventional factory-made ice cream." Maybe it is superior; I don't have a dog in this fight. But I did get the distinct sense that the author was trying to persuade me that gelato is great.

72.193.219.6 (talk) 05:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I see more air, less fat, more sugar, etc. What specifically do you feel is biased? - SummerPhD (talk) 15:52, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I've weeded out much of the comparison material. In addition to being unsourced, it compared "conventional factory made ice cream" to "The home made Gelato". - SummerPhD (talk) 01:33, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I see that in this article there's a contraposition between "conventional factory-made ice cream" and the so called "gelato". In Italy there's contraposition between the "conventional artisan-made ice cream" and the "modern factory-made ice cream", so this is a proof that here we are just talking about artisan-made ice cream. Calling "gelato" any artisan-made ice cream is so USA-centric, because in other countries it's simply called "artisan ice cream". A proof of it is that many italians went to Germany to make ice creams and german people still calls italian-made ice creams "Speiseeis" or just "Eis", like every kind of industrial-made ice creams. --79.45.32.150 (talk) 13:35, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Gelato texture and process

I don't consider myself an expert, and so I'm not going to edit the article, but this article seems to miss the key difference between normal ice cream and gelato which is the silky texture, which I believe is largely due the process by which it is made. Gelato is folded (often by hand, with large spatulas) rather than whipped or churned like ice cream. This puts less air into it, and does not develop ice crystals as happens in ice cream.

Gelato is also softer. I'm not sure if this has something to with the temperature it is kept at, or if is simply the result of this texture difference.--Ericjs (talk) 06:04, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

In Italy, "gelato" could be also harder in consistence, as it happens with the "cremino" type of ice-cream and so on. You are talking of "gelato" meaning "handmade ice-cream", and of "ice-cream" meaning "industrial ice-cream", but in Italy they simply call both "gelato", and if there's some need to point to one type on another, they say "gelato artigianale" ("handmade ice-cream") or "gelato industriale" ("industrial ice-cream"). So if even in Italy there isn't that distinction between ice-creams of any type and any nation, why it should be made by you with two different articles in Wikipedia? I think that "italian-style ice-cream" should be only a paragraph in the ice-cream article, and not an article on his own. --217.203.138.246 (talk) 04:28, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

That's interesting; so it may well be a mistake in the adoption of the word. But many words adopted into languages from other languages incorporate misunderstandings (there is a anthropological term for this phenomena, but it escapes me. Regardless of the usage in Italy, the word "gelato" in English (at least in America) has come to imply some of the characteristics of italian handmade ice-cream, in contrast to what we call "ice cream".--Ericjs (talk) 04:16, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

If you are implying that the meaning of the word "gelato" is "jelly-like", you are very mistaken. The word "jelly" derived from "gel" that derived from "gelatus" in Latin, that means "frozen". The word "frozen" is still used as a metaphor for "blocked" or "rigid" in the English language, but the common word "gelato" (declined to female: "gelata", like "birra gelata" in Italian means "ice-cold beer") in the Italian language means just "frozen" or "ice-cold" regarding the temperature. Anyway, it's obvious that in the USA the word "gleato" is used to allude to artisan made ice-cream, but in other countries every type of this dessert is just called "ice cream", like we do in Italy. So this proves that this article is USA centric, and as far I know the Wikipedia in English should cover also Great Britain (which is actually the birthplace of the English language). --79.45.32.150 (talk) 13:40, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

What is gelato's "signature" ingredient and process?

This article has a lot of info but I couldn't figure out what is the key difference from ice cream. For example, if you remove X ingredient or Y process while making gelato, then you can no longer call it gelato. Gelato and ice cream taste the same to me. However, I do notice that gelato has a kind of "elastic" texture, like when you scoop it, it can stretch like bubble gum until it breaks. What ingredient or process create that characteristic? Kowloonese (talk) 22:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

The signature ingredient it's milk. If you remove milk from an ice cream ("gelato" in the Italian language), you get a sorbet ("sorbetto" in the Italian language). --79.45.32.150 (talk) 14:02, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

U.S. based food manufacturers are confused

If you visit Rome, in Italy, where Gelato originated, and frequent one of the many street vendors, you will find that 90% of the flavor selections are fruit based. This is what true Gelato should be. However, in the U.S., the food manufacturers think that Gelato should be largely cream flavored. So what they do is create flavors like Chocolate, Tiramisu, Creme Brulee, Banana, etc.. Gelato, and promote them as lets say 75% of what the vendor will carry. Then they distribute the few fruit flavors offered and mislabel them as "Sorbetto". THIS IS WRONG. And Sorbet is even a different product than Gelato. In keeping with the traditional Gelato of Italy, the U.S. promoters need to pay attention to their Italian relatives. We're all family! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.209.74.161 (talk) 19:49, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

The ice cream wasn't originated in Rome: it was invented in Sicily and the later introduction in France in the XVII century make that dessert famous. Also, I don't see why you say that the 90% of the flavours of ice cream in Italy are fruit based. That just depends by the request of the public from time to time. Where I live half of the flavours are chocolate or nuts based. There are ice cream makers in Italy who proudly says that they could make ice cream of almost any flavour. Also, the only difference between sorbet ("sorbetto" in Italian) and ice cream ("gelato" in Italian) is that sorbet lacks of milk. So any ice cream is a bit "creamy" because it has milk inside (and that's why they are called "ice cream" for the first stance). Last but not least, in Italy usually fruit flavoured ice creams are in truth sorbets (without milk), and it's considered a bit wrongful to make fruit based ice creams using milk. So it's actually the opposite of what you're saying. --79.45.32.150 (talk) 14:06, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

American-centered

The article is - apart from the references to Italy - very American-centered. I have no objections against Americans but I am missing more information on other European countries.

Fo instance, I noted (many years ago) that in the Soviet Union ice cream is sold on the street in the middle of the winter, while the typical Western-European ice-cream shop is only open during summer months. Rbakels (talk) 11:55, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Please feel free to add whatever you can while citing reliable sources. - SummerPhD (talk) 14:28, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

I second this - why is there so much comparison with the United States? All it talks about is United States this, United States that - unless "gelato" is actually an American phenomenon? In the UK people tend to say "Italian(style) Ice Cream rather than "gelato", I suppose. I mean, it's not so much the need to add things in, as I really don't know much about it, but it just feels like it mentions USA too much. Wikipedia should just get over itself and admit that it's impossible to be this worldwide all embracing encyclopedia with no bias, half the articles on here (in English) are too US centered... I guess it reflects, as any encyclopedia will, the political, economic and cultural situation of the times. there isn't anything wrong with that, it's just how Wikipedia claims that it doesn't/shouldn't. 77.107.84.114 (talk) 10:59, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Please feel free to add whatever you can while citing reliable sources. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:18, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

This ice cream maker in the capital of the United Kingdom it calling its product «fine italian icecream» and not "gelato" as he might have done if it were in the USA: Nardulli's homepage. --79.45.32.150 (talk) 14:36, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

opening paragraph

Very confusing first sentence. This clause is awkward "a far more recent variant of which is ice cream." is that what they call a split infinitive? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevinskogg (talk • contribs) 16:42, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't even get what that means.

"Ice cream" is a ("recent") type of gelato now? 77.107.84.114 (talk) 11:04, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Seems fairly clear to me. "Gelato is an ancient Italian frozen dessert, a far more recent variant of which is ice cream." There is no infinitive, split or otherwise. Gelato is an ancient Italian frozen dessert. Ice cream is a variant. It is "far more recent" (not "recent") in the same way that the invention of agriculture is far more recent than the mass extinction of dinosaurs. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:16, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

That's wrong. The "ancient Italian frozen dessert" is sorbet (water based), not ice cream (milk based). Ice cream born as a variant of sorbet, and it's not ancient (it doesn't come from the Ancient Ages like the sorbet, that was known in Roman Age) but modern (was invented in the Modern Age, the age that came after the Middle Ages and before the Contemporary Age). Using milk to do an ice cream was difficult to achieve in the ancient times because it required cooling the milk almost to ice temperature: it was more efficient to just mix the snow or the ice with the ingredients. Only after the discovery of using salt with the ice to cool a container, and the use of sugar instead of honey (before the discovery of America the only common sweetener was honey, and before the XVI century no one knows how to extract sugar from the sugar beets) it was possible to produce a sorbet based on milk instead of water. --79.45.32.150 (talk) 14:48, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Gelato & Ice cream

Shouldn't there a be a reference to spumoni and possibly a section to compare/contrast the 2? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 1 Lucky Texan (talk • contribs) 16:07, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Artisan gelato as it is known today is not the product of regional traditions. It's an industrial age product created with high tech freezing equipment and a scientific analysis of the properties of the food products used in it. In Italy, the equipment for freezing gelato is manufactured almost exclusively by Carpigiani and a few other companies in Bologna. Artisan quality gelato dependeds on using this high tech freezing equipment and on using fresh ingredients in the mix.

I have studied gelato making in Bologna both at Carpigiani which operates a school for gelato making and at the Sorbeteria, one of Bologna's best gelaterias. I've also traveled and sampled gelato all over Italy. Any regional variations depend on unique quality of local ingredients such as the subtle flavor of lemons from Sorento and pistachios from Sicily.

Artisan gelato trends to have fresher, more vibrant intense flavors than ice cream and a smoother texture. These are the result of technical differences between artisan gelato and ice cream, including: the percentage of fat, the percentage of sugar, the overage (air added), the higher percentage of fresh fruit, nut paste or other flavoring in gelato. --Hoursmany Hoursmany123 (talk) 19:37, 29 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoursmany123 (talk • contribs) 19:34, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

The article implies that gelato is made with a consistent style throughout Italy. As with most Italian foods, this is far from the case. Gelato is regional. Northern gelato tends to be richer, made with a portion of cream and with egg yolks (a custard base just like French style ice cream). Flavors tend toward chocolate and nuts. Southern gelato tends to be leaner, made only with milk, and often stabilized with cornstarch. Fruit flavors are more common. I'm not editing the main article because I don't have solid primary sources, but I know this information from trips to the country and from pastry chefs who study the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.250.7 (talk) 18:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The article claims that many people have the misconception gelato contains gelatin, but a search on Google for recipes will return an endless supply of gelato recipes using gelatin. This page [[1]] in particular claims that most gelato contains gelatin. In addition the Merriam Webster website lists the etymology of the word "gelatin" as being from both the french "gelatine" and the italian "gelato". eos4life 21:45, sep 27, 2006

maybe I'm just ignorant; I am Italian and I knew that "ice cream" was just the English name for "Gelato", so "gelato" and "ice cream" are the same thing, just called in two different languages. I agree that the Italian ice cream is better than any other one I tried abroad, but I didn't know it was just something different... Does anybody have any reference for it?? If it is, I wonder how to say "gelato" in English and "Ice cream" in Italian!! Alessio Damato 19:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

You are right. Gelato is simply Italian for ice-cream. When I see it, I say "gelato" in Italian and "ice-cream" in English. However, Americans think they are clever when they use foreign words, and they have decided that "gelato" (or "gelado" as they pronounce it) is some special thing similar to ice-cream but with less cream. For the rest of us it's just "a creamy brand of ice-cream" (una marca di gelato abbastanza cremoso) or "a not so creamy brand of ice-cream" (una marca di gelato poco cremoso).

Perhaps you are right about the meaning of the words "gelato" and "ice cream" as used in Italy. But I can attest that there is a difference between the frozen dairy dessert widely sold throughout America and universally referred to as "ice cream" by Americans and the frozen dairy dessert I was offered in numerous gelaterias throughout Rome these past few days (I am an American currently on vacation in Italy). Perhaps it is merely a difference in the amount of cream or fat or air, but the resulting difference in texture is so great that I would absolutely consider them to be two different desserts. The kind found everywhere in Rome (at least everywhere in the tourist areas) is not at all common in America; most Americans would be completely unfamiliar with it and would not recognize it as "ice cream". Having no other word for it, Americans refer to it using the same word the locals do: "gelato". -- Anonymous User, 10 Nov 2006

I don't want to be silly, but the word "gelato" in Italian means "frozen", not "gelatin"... --217.203.138.246 (talk) 04:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I still do not understand one thing: in Italy, one can buy Gelato from an artisanal gelateria (yummy) or buy a box or a cone from the grocery store (Motta, Algida etc - these are multinational brands available everywhere under different names). It is not so unlike here (Toronto, Canada). Home-made or artisanal made ice cream is usually better, but I say there is no difference between the frozen desserts bought from a generic grocery store in either country. If I look on my Italian-English dictionary, gelato = ice cream. It is that simple! But people here do not believe me and always say that "gelato" is much better than ice-cream. Gioland71 (talk) 03:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Gelato Artigianale vis-à-vis Industrial Ice Cream

Having been in the Gelato making and distribution business for the last nine years here in the Philippines, under the brand Gelato Eliseo, my biggest challenge has been to communicate the difference between the authentic Gelato, a.k.a. Gelato Artigianale and Industrial Ice Creams.

While Ice Cream and even the word gelato can be used interchangeably as generic terms referring to the whole gamut of frozen sweet things, including the DIY ice creams, street ice cream, popsicles, soft serves, etc……

Gelato when made according to the “authentic and traditional” way is best referred to as Gelato Artigianale (homemade, artisan style or non-industrial type ice cream).

In simplest terms Gelato Artigianale is a natural frozen dairy product made with fresh natural ingredients, primarily fresh milk (up to 72%) and made in small batches of up to 20 liters at a time. Gelato typically contains an air content of 20-25%. Traditionally, Gelato was made according to recipies and procedures which were highly prized and guarded family secrets, handed on from one generation to the next. Passion was, and still is their ultimate “secret” ingredient.

Industrial Ice Creams on the other hand are usually made in large quantities of up to a few tons at a time. Depending on the segment of the market being targeted it can contain more or less of artificial ingredients and coloring. But typically the air content is circa 50%. Due to the large volume production in big factories, the storage and transfer (a.ka.Cold Chain) of Industrial Ice Creams become very crucial and a major cost component of the final product.

This difference in air content between Gelato Artigianale and Industrial Ice Cream(technically known as overrun, but computed and numerically express in a different manner) results in a difference of weight for the same volume, whether expressed in liters or gallon. 1 gallon of Industrial Ice Cream (50% air)weighs 2 kg, but 1 gallon of Gelato Artigianale (20% air)weighs 2.7 kg.

About that overrun: in the article it says, "The added air is called overrun. Unlike commercial ice cream made in factories, which contains up to 100% overrun, ... " Wow! There's a diet dessert for you, it's 100% air! ;) -- 75.16.46.245 (talk) 18:55, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Aside from the difference in weight for the same volume of products, authentic Gelato Artigianale is differentiated through the following:

• Freshly made (minimized need for Cold chain) • Creaminess and Velvety smoothness • Lustre • Slower meltdown • Rich distinct flavors • Wide selection of flavors (including exotic,very unique, even strange) • Lingering flavor after taste (without strange chemical like notes) • Healthy and Nutritious food (“Un Alimento Sano e Naturale”) - ideal to substitute a light meal

Joel Lee, Gelato Eliseo JME Food Products Corporation Quezon City, Philippines gelatoeliseo@gmail.com

Here in Australia, it's even worse. They say "geladi", presumably because Italian ice-cream parlours have "GELATI" ("ICE-CREAMS") written out front, so they have decided that it is a special word for the product inside.

You'll see the same tendency in the word "prosciutto". People will actually say "it's not ham; it's pro-shoo-do", which is bemusing to Italian-speakers. What they mean by "pro-shoo-do" is sometimes "Italian ham", sometimes "dry-cured ham". It's beyond me why they can't just call a spade a spade.

A final note: my girlfriend once went to Italy and ordered a "lattay", as she pretentiously would in Australia. She got her comeuppance however, when they gave her the glass of milk (latte) that she ordered, rather than the milky coffee (caffellatte) that she wanted! — Chameleon 23:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

now it is very clear, thanx. But now I think we should talk about this in the article's page. I'll try to modify it a little bit when I have some time. Alessio Damato 14:24, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid that people who speak like this are very passionate about defending it. If you edit the article they are likely to jump on you with the "original research" rule. — Chameleon 13:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

This phenomenon is very common: gladius means sword in Latin, but is used in English to mean a type of Ancient Roman sword. Menorah means lamp in Hebrew, but is used in English to mean any of several types of branched candelabras / oil lamps used in Jewish rituals. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to come up with dozens of similar examples. I don't think it's necessarily a Bad Thing, so long as people don't assume that the usage is the same in the language of origin. --Iustinus 01:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Do we really call it that? I would call it a shortsword, or a Roman shortsword if I had to be specific. But anyway, yes, at a certain point, misused foreign words become part of the language and we all have to accept it. For example, the words "skirt" and "shirt" both come from the Anglo-Saxon scirt; I don't complain that the pronunciation diverged under Norse influence, followed by the meaning. However, the first few people who misuse a word rightly deserve to be laughed at, not just for amusing travellers' errors such as the one made by my fiancée, but also for thinking they have grasped some delicate nuance in the English language when they distinguish between two things that are actually the same, or for thinking they are cosmopolitan and knowledgeable.

When the French eschew their perfectly good term le joueur de rugby ("rugby player"), for the pseudo-English term le rugbyman, they mutilate both the English and French languages at the same time. When the Italians (I heard this one in Milan) speak of i spanish wine bar, they think they are cosmopolitan, but they actually insulting the English, Spanish and Italian languages all at the same time (by not just calling a spade a spade and speaking plain Italian (le enoteche spagnole) or using the appropriate foreign language (las bodegas españolas), and instead degrading English to the status of an all-purpose foreign-sounding jargon suitable for describing all things un-Italian).

Other stuff that I find stupid includes: people who think that "no problemo" is actually Spanish. People who think sushi means raw fish. People who ask me how to say "hi" in Italian and then tell me "no, you're wrong; ciao means 'bye'". People who make Bruce Lee-style shrieks (and perhaps throw in a racist joke) when I say I'm studying Chinese.

Alessandro, devo dire che odio il modo in cui gli italiani utilizzano certe parole... perché bisogna dire "aprire un account"? La parola vuol dire semplicemente "conto". Siamo in grado di capire che c'è il conto in banca ed il conto di posta elettronica. Utilizziamo la stessa parola in inglese. I francesi e gli spagnoli hanno deciso di adoperare le parole le compte e la cuenta, e capiscono che queste parole sono perfette per parlare dei due concetti leggermente diversi. Perché pensano gli italiani che bisogni dire account quando si tratta di Internet? Poi, il mouse si chiama così perché è come un topo. Chiamarlo "il topo" farebbe ridere? Ma anche noi in inglese ci fa ridere! Ed in altre lingue si dice la souris oppure el ratón senza problemi. Perché sarebbe troppo assurdo solo in italiano? Vabbè. Mi sono già lamentato tantissimo! Penso che tutti abbiano capito che mi piace che si dica pane al pane! — Chameleon 13:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Mr. Chameleon, that's because of the media usage of that words. It is "cool" to say in English the same things that you could say in Italian, that's because of the foreign-philia of the italian people. To simple-minded people in Italy you seem more "professional", "clever" and "instructed" if you use English words in your speak, and Television and newspapers are making the situation worse. So the word "account", if literally translated in "conto" or "acconto", seem «babelfished» to the ordinary italian man (to the point that some people refer to their "account" in Italian as "profilo", that is the translation of the English word "profile". But no-one in Italy is thinking that an "account" and a "profilo" are two different things, as "ice-cream" against "gelato" is supposed to be to an English-speaker as you say. If an italian eat an industrial ice-cream made in the USA, or Germany, or UK, or Italy, he thinks of that thing simply as "gelato", like the handmade one. And, to say the truth, the only different thing between an industrial ice cream made in north Europe and an industrial ice cream made in Italy that i can hardly found is that the one made in Italy is usually less sweet than the one made in north Europe. --217.203.138.246 (talk) 03:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

You can also note that here in Italy there's an extreme computer illiteracy and English illiteracy. When the first personal computers came in Italy (often made by italian manufacturer Olivetti, but based on technology researched at their plants in Cupertino and Palo Alto) the operating systems wasn't translated from English, so the few italian engineers and professionals that used them referred to the various functions and accessories with their english name. When the usage of the personal computer spreaded also to the common people, they were still using the english names because they didn't know how to translate them. Now many more people knows that "mouse" means "topo" in the italian language (at a basic level, English is taught in primary school), but everyone is still using the english name because it's the only common name used. The same thing happens for loaned words like the gaming "console" (the meaning in italian is "mensola"), "computer" (in italian is "calcolatore"), "tablet" ("tavoletta" in italian) and so on. --79.45.32.150 (talk) 15:34, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh mamma mia che sta succedendo alla lingua italiana adesso che non ci sono!!! 207.228.52.221 (talk) 19:52, 12 February 2008 (UTC)Francesca

Don't say "mamma mia" please, it's a stupid cliché. --217.203.138.246 (talk) 03:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree: "mamma mia" is not an exclamation widely used here in Italy and it doesn't represent Italy in its entirety (it's more common in South Italy). Also this is the English based Wikipedia, so we are supposed to talk only in English. I am italian but I think that chatting with a foreign language here is extremely unpolite towards the english-speaking people. --79.45.32.150 (talk) 15:09, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Sourcing

One of the disconcerting things about this page is the generally poor quality of the sourcing. I've added Ferrari, Luciano (2005). Gelato and Gourmet Frozen Desserts - A professional learning guide., which could be a good starting point, imo. 86.162.136.32 (talk) 23:58, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Distinction

This article fails to make a firm distinction between ice cream and gelato. It seems to be a subset of ice cream but even that isn't defined. I don't see why this article is necessary at all. 78.86.61.94 (talk) 15:35, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

That's because there isn't a distinction between "ice cream" and "gelato" at all! The so called "italian gelato" that people is eating in the USA isn't really italian, also here in Italy we clearly distinguish between artisan ice cream and industrial ice cream, and this article seems talking about artisan ice cream as made in the USA. I propose to change the name of this article into "Artisan Ice Cream" and to specify the different regional variations (the one made in Italy, the one made in the USA, and so on). --79.45.32.150 (talk) 13:23, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Seems to me this is a language difference. The English word gelato refers to artisanal style ice cream, at least in American English. The word is obviously derived from the Italian word, but the meaning of the English word has become much more specific. --87.82.207.195 (talk) 16:29, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Clarification, Please

This is an amazingly short article. I expected a lot more when I came to it with some questions. The talk section is substantially longer than the article itself.

Be that as it may, I don't understand the sentence in the History section that begins "However, the popularity of gelato among larger shares of the population only increased in the 1920s–1930s ..." First, the word however usually introduces a mild contradiction. I don't see what is being contradicted. Second, the word only is puzzling. Was the popularity expected to increase and decrease during this period? I suspect that what was meant is something like "The popularity remained largely unchanged until 1920 when it increased significantly over the next decade." That is absolutely a guess and I have no idea if I'm right or not. SDCHS (talk) 00:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Terminologies

"Gelateria" would be better than "parlours" 64.229.156.84 17:12, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"Parlours" is normal in English. — Chameleon 23:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Also calling "Ice Cream" every ice cream instead of using foreign words just for fashion should be normal in English. --79.41.91.32 (talk) 00:10, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

gelato and traditional

The Italian word gelato is derived from the word congelato which means frozen. The expression "gelato ice cream" is so American-centric. Gelato IS ice cream. "Italian ice cream (Italian-style ice cream) or gelato" would be a far better rendering. If the article then goes on to explain the differences between Italian gelato and traditional American-style ice cream (which is not necessarily traditional in other parts of the world), then that would be a valid comparison.

However, the comparison of gelato vs. "traditional ice cream" is rather bizarre. An informed study of the introduction and popularity of ice cream in the US suggests that gelato is the traditional ice cream that then was transformed into a popular American confection.

Seriously guys! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.56.103.12 (talk) 21:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I'm italian and this article is full of nonsense. Here in Italy we call "gelato" both the artisan ice cream and the industrial ice cream. On the packages of industrial ice creams made in Italy there's written "gelato" and the translation in English on the same cardboard boxes is "ice cream". Even we call "gelato" that unpalatable "sundae" that they sells at McDonald's. This article is USA-centric, it only testifies that people in the USA calls with italian names foods that were instead invented by Italian-American people that no longer has anything to do with the Italian culture. Other examples of these abominations (and moreover with daring combinations of flavours) are Fettuccine Alfredo, heavily altered butter noodles or macaroni, and Italian soda, that no one in Italy ever drinked. --79.45.32.150 (talk) 13:18, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

I am going to delete the opening part of the Production paragraph, namely: "Making gelato is similar to making ice cream". As the opening paragraph of the whole article says that gelato is simply the Italian word for ice cream, then to perpetuate a false distinction is not warranted.--621PWC (talk) 16:39, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

The only real difference here is that the "gelato" described in the article is a sundae made in the USA and marketed as "italian" just for fashion, while in Italy we actually just make ice creams without worrying if they are italian or not... Even the "american-like" sundaes that you can eat at our local McDonald's are called "gelato" (italian word for "ice cream") by us. We just make difference between "industrial" and "artisanal" ice creams. --79.41.91.32 (talk) 00:21, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Recent addition (August 2014)

Thank you for your contribution. However there are two problems: 1) If you are using a source, you need to include an inline citation so that readers will know where the information came from (without having to dig through the article's history. 2) I see nothing to indicate that mrpisagelato.com.au is a reliable source. The text you added makes several claims about gelato and ice cream that are unsupported and seem to be biased in favor of the business's product:

• "gelato is prepared hand-crafted fresh in batches daily" - This is certainly true in some cases. Other times the gelato is made in advance.
• "ice cramsic...is commonly made weeks or months in advance" - Ice cream from my kitchen is made minutes before we eat it. It is still ice cream.
• "(gelato) has a richer, creamier and smoother taste". This is subjective. Honda would likely say that the difference between a Honda and any other car is that theirs are "more stylish, more reliable and make you look cool."
• (gelato) does not contain the same nutritional fats and sugars". I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Cream and sugar are "nutritional fats and sugars". Both are used to make ice cream and gelato.
• "Ice cream has a much colder taste in the mouth". ("In the mouth..."? I'm not sure where else a taste would be...) This is subjective and confusing: "colder" is not a "taste".
• "(ice cream) is usually served in skoops, whereas Gelato is served with a spatula". Again, not always. Even if this is true, does this make the product any different?
• "Gelato...is hand made in small bundles and not made in bulk quantity". Gelato is hand made ice cream? When I make a batch of ice cream does it become gelato? When my local gelato shop makes a batch of gelato (with several machines, BTW), how small must the batch be to remain gelato?
• "ice -cream is user's anonymous machines". Again, I make small batches of ice cream. Yes, I use a machine to continually stir it (much like the local gelato shop). If I use my father's hand-cranked ice cream maker, does it become gelato?
• "(ice cream uses) industrialised pre-mix ingredients". My vanilla ice cream uses milk, cream, sugar and vanilla.

Yes, we need to clarify what gelato is and what makes it different from ice cream (if anything). We need independent reliable sources for this. - SummerPhD (talk) 15:05, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Any "gelato" is an ice cream, there's no differences. The usage of the italian word in the USA suggests they indeed mean "artisanal ice-cream". Calling those "italian-style ice cream" is redundant: since ice creams (frozen desserts made with milk, not with water like the sorbets, that were made by many cultures in ancient times) were invented by italian cooks, basically any ice cream tries to mimic the italian style.--95.232.240.179 (talk) 15:57, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

This article really makes no sense

I am Italian, living in Italy. This article really makes no sense, "gelato" in Italian means "ice cream", that's all. It's not a different product! In Italy we call "gelato" everything: both ice cream from the supermarket and from the ice cream parlour. When somebody says "I want a gelato" it can also be a supermarket (industrial) one! This article is silly, it should be included in the ice cream article. 151.42.7.85 (talk) 01:25, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, in Italian and in Italy. This article is discussing a specialty product that is call "gelato" in American English, as the introduction tries to make clear. In the U.S., no one sells that product as "ice cream" as it sells for a considerable premium. Similarly, en.wikipedia's article hamburger (as well as our uses of "frankfurter" and "weiner") refers to the ground beef patty sandwich rather than a resident of Frankfurt (two terms for a hot dog, not residents of Frankfurt or Vienna). Sandwich, of course, is the food, not the Earl or the town in Kent.

English is a mutt language. We use and abuse words from far and wide to describe cuisines that have been similarly mangled. Should you visit the U.S., I'd advise bracing yourself when any restaurant serves you anything they describe as "Italian".

If you think the article needs to make this clearer, please make some suggestions. If you feel the article should be merged into ice cream, I can help you get the discussion started, but I highly doubt it will happen. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:22, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

What you say is true, but the article does have a rather parochial American tone to it at present. I'm not going to add a globalize template though, given the article is short and already has one template. Maybe it would be better to de-emphasise the US stuff rather than try to add info about what 'gelato' means in Britain, Ireland, Canada, Australia etc. --Ef80 (talk) 19:10, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't understand why en.wiki should be written in "American English". Isn't this the same Wikipedia in English that is written and read by british people too? --95.232.240.179 (talk) 15:47, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR has some guidelines on which way to jump: if it's a subject with no particular tie to either Britain or America, we just stick with whatever English the earliest version of the article happened to be written in. But there's absolutely no reason why we can't use American English to explain a subject's differences in Britain and America. --McGeddon (talk) 15:59, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

You mean that there's absolutely no reason you can't use "American English" (Canada is included? That's "America" too.) aside from the fact that the English language was born in Great Britain and that, except in the USA, every non english-speakers in the world learns british English as a foreign language in schools and private courses? Ok, so why don't you write articles in other English dialects too? Maybe an article about the Queen of Britain should also be written in australian English, since she's their Head of State... --95.232.240.179 (talk) 17:35, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

It's a reasonable article and it does make things fairly clear (I'm a Brit living in Italy). But it is a very US-centric article considering that gelato is used in many countries (see the inter-lingual links on the left and those are about gelator rather than the native term for ice cream). I guess this article would be like having two articles about chocolate - one for proper chocolate as found in the US and one for what Americans call chocolate which most of the rest of the world wouldn't feed to an animal. Or having an article for the word liberal in the US and one for what it means in the rest of the world.--XANIA - ЗAНИA^{Wikipedia talk | Wikibooks talk} 23:53, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Irrelevant article

In light of all that has been said above, I will go through the article to clarify that this is about a US American concept. Not about the Italian term gelato, which merely means ice cream. Let's see what is left afterwards. Iago2¹² 17:58, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I have eaten a wonderful dessert in Florence up some back street, years ago, and I agree that "Italian ice" in South Philadelphia, and anything here called "gelato" or worse, "gelati" is a very far cry from the dessert I had in Italy. I would welcome articles for both, and I have ducked naming what I had in Florence many years ago. Can we have articles on both, with precise names? Beyond all that, "drei ice" in Germany means three ice creams, but hardly as good as in Italy. --Dthomsen8 (talk) 21:52, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

I agree that this article has many problems. But I'm not sure what "Italian ice" means or what the relevance of "drei ice" in Germany is.

"Gelato" in Italian simply means "ice cream", as several editors above have pointed out. In the US, "gelato" is a particular style of low-fat ice cream inspired by the ice cream found in Italy.

The article needs to be reworked -- with reliable sources, of course -- to be clearer about all this. --Macrakis (talk) 22:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

History

I was thinking that we could make the second paragraph of the introduction into the history section of Gelato. This way, the introduction will only be a brief description of what gelato is rather than having it mixed in with the history. Then, we can add more about the history of this dessert in a new section of this work. Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas to add to this? These sources may work: Jciri3-19 (talk) 16:36, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

References

Silly history section

The history section talks as though "gelato" and "ice cream" have different histories. But they are the same thing. Only very recently (1980s) did "gelato" start being used in the US as a name for a certain style of ice cream inspired by artisanal Italian gelaterie.

So it is silly to start the history of gelato in the 17th century. --Macrakis (talk) 18:09, 2 November 2021 (UTC)