Talk:Gary Moore/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 11:32, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve been looking for a good candidate for me to GA review, and this seems ideal. I’ll have a read through the article, stick on my copy of After hours (which I haven't listened to for, well, years actually :-/) and come back with specific comments. By the way, I tend to copyedit as I go and ask questions; feel free to revert and discuss if you disagree. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 11:32, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Can you double check that Moore self-identified as Northern Irish? I think it's right, but it's one of those things that is likely to be edit-warred over until the end of time. Sources, such as Guardian obituary, skirt around the issue by using "Belfast born".
"Moore died on 6 February 2011 from a heart attack while on vacation in Spain." As this is an article about a Northern Irish musician, UK English should be used, hence "holiday" instead of "vacation"
Why is the quotation from Bob Geldof particularly important to go in the lead?
"For most of his career, Moore was also heavily associated with Green's famed 1959 Gibson Les Paul guitar, which was sold to him by Green." - I'm trying to think of a way of rephrasing it so it doesn't mention "Green" twice in the same sentence, but I can't think of anything to hand - do you have any ideas?

Early life

"Robert William Gary Moore was born on 4 April 1952" - the source given does not verify his full name
"Moore eventually left Belfast in 1968 just as The Troubles were starting." For the benefit of those unfamiliar with NI politics, it might be worth explaining what The Troubles are in a few words eg: "ethno-nationlist unrest and conflict in Northern Ireland"
"However, Lynott was soon asked to leave Skid Row by the band's bassist Brush Shiels." The citation given would be worth reformatting to use {{cite book}} (however, the reformatting is not a requirement for GA). Also this glosses over the reason why Lynott was fired from Skid Row, which was because he took a leave of absence for health reasons, and by the time he had recovered, Brush Shiels had got used to covering the lead vocals.
"Moore left Skid Row to start a solo career" - why did he leave the group?
The article on "Still in Love With You" says Moore co-wrote the song with Lynott but didn't get a credit. This is sourced to Putterford's Lynott biography and Alan Byrne's Thin Lizzy book.

Solo career

The image caption says "Moore performing at the Manchester Apollo in 1983." but the picture says 1985
The article glosses over Grinding Stone. Why did Moore decided to record it, and why chose those musicians? Is there anything about the decision for him to sing lead for the first time? This source has some information. And is it just me, or does the front cover appear to show a woman masturbating?
Similarly, Back on the Streets is glossed over to just list the release date and a mention of "Parisienne Walkways". I think we need more information about the background, how "Parisienne Walkways" was written (eg: the lyrics were added late in the process), and how the remake of "Don't Believe A Word" made it onto the album. The Sound on Sound source has got further information. Also, was he in Thin Lizzy while making this album, or was it before he permanently replaced Brian Robertson?
"He recorded the album Dirty Fingers, which was shelved in favour of the G-Force album, which came out in 1980" - the article on the album says it was recorded a year after G-Force, in 1991
Why was Dirty Fingers shelved?
No mention of Ian Paice working with Moore on Corridors of Power.
I think we need more information on Run for Cover. It was his breakthrough album, commercially and critically successful, and also worth mentioning the remake of "Still in Love With You" with Lynott, that was left off the original album but reinstated for CD reissues. Additionally, the personnel on the album is like a who's who of British rock musicians; definitely worth name-checking some of these
Both Still Got The Blues and After Hours feature guest collaborations from major blues artists - these should definitely be mentioned. The Louder source talks a bit more about the former album in particular, explaining how it revitalised his career and got him increased musical respect. Oh, and he changed his wardrobe to smart suits. Also worth mentioning is Don Airey's collaboration on this album.
"He continued to release new music throughout the 2000s" - I don't see why we can't just list the three albums in question; if they were just "more of the same" compared to Still Got The Blues and After Hours, just name-checking them should be enough

Other work

G-Force is mentioned in "solo career" and "other work". Which is right?
Some more of the reason BBM broke up would be good to add here - the Louder source has quite a bit of information.
"In 2002, Moore collaborated with former Skunk Anansie bassist Cass Lewis and Primal Scream drummer Darrin Mooney in Scars, which released one album" - the article is about the album, so this should come under "Solo career" as it's a Moore solo album with notable guest collaborators, not a three-way equal partnership like BBM

Death

"Moore was laid to rest in a private ceremony - for "laid to rest", don't you mean "buried"?

Style and influences

Why is File:Gary Moore 2005.05.21 001.jpg here? It doesn't seem to demonstrate much of Moore's playing style (the lead image does that better)
Some of the quotations here are a bit long - could they be paraphrased as prose instead?
The Vintage Guitar source says Moore preferred to write lyrics first, as otherwise everybody would be waiting for him to write them after they'd recorded the backing track.

Equipment

"On Still Got the Blues, Moore used another 1959 Gibson Les Paul, which he got in 1989" - by "got", do you mean he bought it, or did somebody give it to him?

Overview

The article is close to meeting the GA criteria, so I'll put the review on hold. Most of the issues are relatively trivial; the main issue is that the 1970s and 80s solo career needs to be fleshed out a bit more, as does the stylistic change to Still Got The Blues which was a career peak. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 13:56, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Lead

Can you double check that Moore self-identified as Northern Irish? I think it's right, but it's one of those things that is likely to be edit-warred over until the end of time. Sources, such as Guardian obituary, skirt around the issue by using "Belfast born".

Regarding his stance on being Northern Irish, I really don't know. I couldn't find any sources on whether he regarded himself as Northern Irish or just plain Irish.

"Moore died on 6 February 2011 from a heart attack while on vacation in Spain." As this is an article about a Northern Irish musician, UK English should be used, hence "holiday" instead of "vacation"

Fixed.

Why is the quotation from Bob Geldof particularly important to go in the lead?

I just think it speaks to his importance and his legacy. It underlines the fact that he was a big influence and a highly regarded musician.

"For most of his career, Moore was also heavily associated with Green's famed 1959 Gibson Les Paul guitar, which was sold to him by Green." - I'm trying to think of a way of rephrasing it so it doesn't mention "Green" twice in the same sentence, but I can't think of anything to hand - do you have any ideas?

I tried fixing it the best I could. Hope it's better now.

Early life

"Robert William Gary Moore was born on 4 April 1952" - the source given does not verify his full name

Added another source that gives his full name.

"Moore eventually left Belfast in 1968 just as The Troubles were starting." For the benefit of those unfamiliar with NI politics, it might be worth explaining what The Troubles are in a few words eg: "ethno-nationlist unrest and conflict in Northern Ireland"

Tried rephrasing the sentence. Hope it works.

"However, Lynott was soon asked to leave Skid Row by the band's bassist Brush Shiels." The citation given would be worth reformatting to use {{cite book}} (however, the reformatting is not a requirement for GA). Also this glosses over the reason why Lynott was fired from Skid Row, which was because he took a leave of absence for health reasons, and by the time he had recovered, Brush Shiels had got used to covering the lead vocals.

Reformatting done. I also added more info on Lynott's firing.

"Moore left Skid Row to start a solo career" - why did he leave the group?

Added additional info.

The article on "Still in Love With You" says Moore co-wrote the song with Lynott but didn't get a credit. This is sourced to Putterford's Lynott biography and Alan Byrne's Thin Lizzy book.

Added a brief mention about co-writing the track.

Solo career

The image caption says "Moore performing at the Manchester Apollo in 1983." but the picture says 1985

That's a mistake with the picture. If you go to the original Flickr page, it says 1983.

The article glosses over Grinding Stone. Why did Moore decided to record it, and why chose those musicians? Is there anything about the decision for him to sing lead for the first time? This source has some information. And is it just me, or does the front cover appear to show a woman masturbating?

Added as much additional info I could find, but there isn't much.

Similarly, Back on the Streets is glossed over to just list the release date and a mention of "Parisienne Walkways". I think we need more information about the background, how "Parisienne Walkways" was written (eg: the lyrics were added late in the process), and how the remake of "Don't Believe A Word" made it onto the album. The Sound on Sound source has got further information. Also, was he in Thin Lizzy while making this album, or was it before he permanently replaced Brian Robertson?

I would argue additional information about "Parisienne Walkways" and "Don't Believe A Word" should be relegated to articles about the songs themselves or the album. Going into too much detail about a particular song's inclusion or backstory serves no real purpose here, as this is an article about the man himself, not a particular album's making-of.

"He recorded the album Dirty Fingers, which was shelved in favour of the G-Force album, which came out in 1980" - the article on the album says it was recorded a year after G-Force, in 1991

You probably meant 1981, not 1991? Nevertheless, the album's article cites no sources. The source cited here clearly states that Dirty Fingers was recorded in 1980.

Why was Dirty Fingers shelved?

Added a little additional info. Not much information out there, aside from G-Force being more radio friendly.

No mention of Ian Paice working with Moore on Corridors of Power.

Fixed.

I think we need more information on Run for Cover. It was his breakthrough album, commercially and critically successful, and also worth mentioning the remake of "Still in Love With You" with Lynott, that was left off the original album but reinstated for CD reissues. Additionally, the personnel on the album is like a who's who of British rock musicians; definitely worth name-checking some of these

Added as much additional info as I felt necessary. Like with Back on the Streets, I don't feel it's relevant to go into too much detail about any particular songs here. Additionally, Run for Cover mostly achieved success on the back of "Out in the Fields" (a fact I just highlighted in the article), so there isn't much point in going over its success further than I already have. If you look at the sales and such of Corridors and Victims, there was a steady climb in success, "Out in the Fields" just helped it over the edge so to speak.

Both Still Got The Blues and After Hours feature guest collaborations from major blues artists - these should definitely be mentioned. The Louder source talks a bit more about the former album in particular, explaining how it revitalised his career and got him increased musical respect. Oh, and he changed his wardrobe to smart suits. Also worth mentioning is Don Airey's collaboration on this album.

Added additional info. Airey was already a member of Moore's band in the 1980s, something I added to the article, along with additional band members.

"He continued to release new music throughout the 2000s" - I don't see why we can't just list the three albums in question; if they were just "more of the same" compared to Still Got The Blues and After Hours, just name-checking them should be enough

Fixed. There might be a better way of doing it, but I couldn't really think of any.

Other work

G-Force is mentioned in "solo career" and "other work". Which is right?

I would argue G-Force belongs in the "Other work" section, as it was more of a band effort, as cited here, here and here. However, it is relevant to why Dirty Fingers was shelved, so a quick mention of the band is needed in the "Solo career" section. I would leave it as is.

Some more of the reason BBM broke up would be good to add here - the Louder source has quite a bit of information.

There really isn't just one reason. A lot of infighting, personality clashes, etc. According to the article, what finally broke the camel's back was Moore's divorce proceedings, so I added that.

"In 2002, Moore collaborated with former Skunk Anansie bassist Cass Lewis and Primal Scream drummer Darrin Mooney in Scars, which released one album" - the article is about the album, so this should come under "Solo career" as it's a Moore solo album with notable guest collaborators, not a three-way equal partnership like BBM

If you look at the source given in the article (as well as here), it clearly identifies Scars as a band, not just a Gary Moore solo project, with a Sanctuary Records spokesman stating: "Officially, this is the Scars tour."

I was hoping someone would list the albums he did with Cozy Powell. I know he did at least 2. As a guest guitarist on a few songs. But they're great songs and by a viable peer that I would think you'd want to mention. One Powell album was called "Over the Top" and the other I believe was called "Tilt." He may have done more, but these were at least 2 that I knew of.

Death

"Moore was laid to rest in a private ceremony - for "laid to rest", don't you mean "buried"?

Fixed.

Style and influences

Why is File:Gary Moore 2005.05.21 001.jpg here? It doesn't seem to demonstrate much of Moore's playing style (the lead image does that better)

Switched the picture with another one.

Some of the quotations here are a bit long - could they be paraphrased as prose instead?

Some of the stuff is quite hard to paraphrase, but I did as much as I could.

The Vintage Guitar source says Moore preferred to write lyrics first, as otherwise everybody would be waiting for him to write them after they'd recorded the backing track.

I don't think the lyric thing is particularly important. As stated in the source, he doesn't always have lyrics ready, it was just this one specific album that he had pre-written all the lyrics for. I did however include a mention of his songwriting style in the "Style and influences" section.

Equipment

"On Still Got the Blues, Moore used another 1959 Gibson Les Paul, which he got in 1989" - by "got", do you mean he bought it, or did somebody give it to him?

Bought. Fixed it.

Overview

I tried fixing as much as possible. I hope it did the trick.--SilverBullitt (talk) 16:56, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I tweaked a couple of things. I also put back the older picture in "Style and Influences" as the new caption you've put in explains the picture's relevant a lot better. Other than that, I think this now meets the GA criteria, so I'll pass the review now. Well done! Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 17:56, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]