Talk:Fritz Haber/Archives/2014

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 01:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Origin of Zyklon B

We read "During the Holocaust, Zyklon A was altered by the Nazis to be used in the gas chambers of concentration camps as Zyklon B."

WRONG! Zyklon B was a patented delivery system (patented in 1922) for rodent elimination. Nothing do with Nazis. This can be checked on the german Wikipedia page.

83.99.45.146 (talk) 23:53, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Factory owner?

Did he actually own any factories where the gas was produced? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.39.121 (talk) 09:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

"Jewishness"

Is that word really correct? Shouldn't it be "his jewish background" Shanekorte 03:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

And you have glossed over his conversion from orthodox Jew to Christian. How could an intelligent man make such an irrational decision. Was it to escape the hollocaust which he knew was coming. So he was a moral coward along with his cavalier attitude to other peoples death. I am surprised that Weizmann gave him the directorship but then that was 10 years before the gas chambers were in action. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.128.179 (talk) 18:59, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

He converted in 1893! --Jkbw (talk) 21:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

How he can he know the 'hollocaust' (sic) was coming when then Wannsee conference was in 1942? 83.99.45.146 (talk) 23:52, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

And another thing

This sentence: "Members of Haber's extended family died in concentration camps through the use of his invention, Zyklon B." seems stupid. His family members may have died in the concentration camps, but what proof is there that they were gassed? maybe they starved, or were shot, or worked to death. It is an ironic, even romantic notion that his family would suffer indirectly from his hands, but that notion does not belong in this article. maybe if the word "perhaps" were put in before the word "through" it could be rectified without being ... wrong. Shanekorte 04:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Word 'possibly' added. Norvo 00:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't make the article any better. Just more weasel-words and unfounded speculation. Shanekorte is right — it doesn't belong in the article. —Quicksilver^{T @} 10:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Haber's age at death is given in the article as 65, 69 and 73 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.241.225 (talk • contribs) 15 August 2007

There should still be some description of his role in developing Zyklon B. The article on Zyklon B states he invented it, here it says "a group of scientist did". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.160.50 (talk) 06:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

through the use of his invention, Zyklon B.

can we have the exacte reference of this.

Fritz Haber: Chemist, Nobel Laureate, German, Jew by Dietrich Stoltzenberg pages 234-235:

"The so-called Zyklon process was later worked out in Flury's department at Haber's Kaiser Wilhelm Institute . . . This combination was called Zyklon C"

-Rny2 1/1/2010 7:29 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.203.58 (talk) 01:29, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

minor additional information

Cite:He was even given the rank of Captain by the Kaiser, a rare thing for a scientist too old to enlist in military service

He was give the title of Hauptmann (Captain) is true - but jews were (usually) not allowed in the officer corps - he was one of very very few exceptions. His promotion was only unusual on behalf of being a jew and not because of age or other reasons. The evening his wife killed herself - it was the party for both Ypres and his promotion to captain.

Also it should be noted that he was asked for help on the use of chemical weapons in Algeria and other places between WWI and WWII and did not fail to answer.

By WWI the huge increase in the size of the German Army meant that some of the prejudices against Jews were set aside, and a few were appointed as officers, especially if they had converted to Christianity and become hardline German nationalists. Cf. Heinrich Spiero, who was appointed to the Reichswirtschaftsamt and rose to the rank of Major. Like Haber, he was a convert to Protestantism. None of this diminishes the ironies of Haber's situation. Norvo, 16:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC).

Nobel year

Does anyone here have the book Enriching the Earth? In Omnivore's Dilemma, where the author used Smil's book as a source, says Haber got the 1920 Nobel for "contributions to agriculture" or something. I checked Wiki's list of nobellers and there is already some other german dude in 1920 list but can someone check this? 82.93.133.130 14:10, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I think Omnivore's must be wrong. This agrees with Wiki. 82.93.133.130 14:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposal for merging in Clara Immerwahr

Per my recent review of that article, I suggest merging the material on Clara Immerwahr into this article, as Immerwahr's independent notability is unclear and much of that article seems to cover Haber's contributions. Please discuss this proposal here. Espresso Addict 08:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

The off-wiki article linked at Clara Immerwahr says she was 'the first woman to receive a doctorate in chemsitry from the University of Breslau', which is pretty marginal for notability IMHO, (and isn't mentioned in the article.) I support a merge, (leaving her page as a redirect) since only a couple of lines would be needed: herself a chemist, translated his work, shot herself. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 07:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the relevance of Clara Immerwahr as a Scientist, a Pionner on Women's rights, and in Pacifism is fundamental and deserves her own place in Wikipedia as a model for all three things. Remember that women were NOT allowed to work in Germany in the beggining of the 1900 if they were married so it was not her decision to step out from research but a consequence on the social conditions. Moreover, Dr. Immerwahr death was the only way that she had to show the wrong consequences of the Ypres bombardements led by her husband. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.2.63.88 (talk • contribs) 11:32, 27 July 2007

I take your point that it's a bit of a slap in the face for a pioneer of women's rights to be redirected to her husband's page; however, at present, the page for Clara Immerwahr has very little information that does not relate to Haber, and does not stress her individual notability. The lack of proper referencing is also problematic, and the linked biography of Immerwahr has all the same problems as our article. Do you have suitable resources to expand and improve Immerwahr? I don't read much German, so I don't stand a lot of chance. Espresso Addict 11:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, my German is not good either. But I've read several things related to educated jewish women, the start of WWI and the role of Haber in the chemical warfare and I am a chemist myself. One of the first women to obtain a degree certainly deserves a larger article. I will try to include some more information regarding her Ph.D Thesis. Moreover, Clara Immerwahr was translating into English her husband's work for a period. This is documented in several of Haber's biographies. One of the most important points that is documented is that when Haber started to try chlorine as a poison gas there was an accident and the Kaiser Wilhem Institute and one of the people working with Haber died and several were injured. Clara seem to have been one of the first persons to arrive to the lab after the accident took place. She then knew what were the effects of chemical poisoning and probably suicide was her only way to show her opposition to the chemical war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.128.226.28 (talk • contribs) 13:32, 28 July 2007

If you plan to develop the Immerwahr article further then I'm happy to leave it unmerged. Espresso Addict 16:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

References

First 1868-1934 gives 65 years! Fixed it!

• Hanspeter Witschi (2000). "Fritz Haber: 1868–1934". Toxicological Sciences. 55 (1–2). {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
• Bretislav Friedrich. "Fritz Haber: Chemist, Nobel Laureate, German, Jew. By Dietrich Stoltzenberg. Book Review". Angewandte Chemie International Edition. 44 (26): 3957–3961. doi:10.1002/anie.200485206. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
• Dietrich Stoltzenberg. (2004). Fritz Haber: Chemist, Nobel Laureate, German, Jew. Chemical Heritage Press. pp. 326 pp. ISBN 0-941901-24-6. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
• {*Lindern, Celia von (1999). "Fritz Haber, 1868-1934: Eine Biographie (review)". Technology and Culture. 40 (4): 886–887. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)

--Stone 07:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

The first "Further reading", Daniel Charles' Master mind: The Rise and Fall of Fritz Haber, the Nobel Laureate Who Launched the Age of Chemical Warfare appears to have been published in the UK as Between genius and genocide, The Tragedy of Fritz Haber, Father of Chemical Warfare by Jonathan Cape in 2005 and then by Pimlico in 2006, ISBN 9781844130924. I says 'appears' as it seems unlikely to be a different book, but I have not confirmed this. If it is so, should this be mentioned? --Bduke (Discussion) 04:18, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Born-Haber Cycle

No mention of the Born-Haber Cycle? Acceptable (talk) 04:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

You are right, this was an important omission. I have included a brief description after the mention you added. Dirac66 (talk) 19:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Acceptable (talk) 00:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Timeline

". . . and also later, after he left the program, in the Nazi extermination camps." After he left the "program"? What he had left was the PLANET. He died in 1934, several years before the Nazis came upon the idea of using Zyklon B in the Holocaust. Rammer (talk) 05:06, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Upcoming Changes

I plan to improve this page over the coming weeks, and have already begun to make edits to the opening paragraph. Please keep this in mind if you plan to make any changes.Pbysr (talk) 20:58, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Zyklon B refinement by the Nazis

I call this section of the article into question: "The Nazis refined Haber's original work, Zyklon A, into Zyklon B.[15] They removed the warning odor [16] and adjusted the delivery method of the poison so that it could be more easily transported[17]. During the Holocaust it was used in the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau and other camps in the Nazi campaign to exterminate Jews, Gypsies and others viewed by the Third Reich as inferior races or socially unwanted."

According to the article on Zyklon B (and sources given there), the patent for Zyklon B was filed in 1922, which would preclude any Nazi involvement in the development of Zyklon B. That the warning odor was removed is contradicted by the article in Zyklon B (and sources there) as well as the source cited here, which specifically mentions a warning agent present in Zyklon B, and only talks about a reduction in warning agent because of supply issues. Furthermore, according to sources in both the Zyklon B article and this article, Zyklon A was developed at Haber's institute, but there is no indication that it was actually his own work. I therefore propose to strike this sentence. 188.192.85.112 (talk) 16:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Proscription on poison gas in 1907 Hague Conventions

The article claims that Haber helped Germany use poison gas despite its being proscribed by the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907. That wikipedia page states that the ban on poison gas was added to the Hague Conventions of 1907 by the Geneva Protocol of 1925. This suggests the implication that Haber knowingly helped Germany violate its treaty obligations in regard to poison gas is false. Qemist (talk) 03:58, 26 September 2013 (UTC)