Talk:French people/Archive 2

Why is the ethnicity template box different from all the others?

Seriously why is there no indication of their language, religion, or related peoples? WTF?!

~Supera45 09/03/2007 8:13 P.M. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.81.127 (talk) 00:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Just men??

Why are there just men pictured in the infobox? Wouldn't it be great to ad some women too?? Aaker 14:36, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

i've added gals. french women achieved peanuts compared to men except for joan of arc and marie curie (who isn't french born hence shes not on the list). there's no equivalent for Descartes, Molière, Victor Hugo, Pasteur, Ferdinand de Lesseps or Napoléon in the ladies. this is sad but true. Paris By Night 06:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

What about Olympe de Gouges, Simone de Beauvoir, Marie Antoinette, Édith Piaf, Simone Weil and Coco Chanel just to mention a few of all prominent Frenchwomen. But you're right the amount of men is much bigger. Probably because it has been more difficult for women to make a career. Aaker 19:50, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

We need also people like Alexandre Dumas, Aimé Cézaire or Zinedine Zidane. Ericd 00:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

A LOT OF VANDALISM!!!

Okay, this article has been uber-vandalized lately. Someone needs to revert it, and then protect it. Rabidcentipede 13:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

francophonie

The paragraph about francophonie got me wondering if the notorious pieds noirs inhabiting mostly the South of France might have considered Arabic (Algerian, Moroccan, and Tunisian dialects) to be their first language(s). I suspect, but I don't actually know. Dick Kimball 16:19, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Dick, FYI the Pied-Noir were the inhabitants of French Algeria which was officially part of the French Republic not an official colony (like indochina or madagascar), it was like Corsica now (or Ireland for the english I guess), consider it kind of lander or province. These were of european descent being catholic or spanish jew. French language is the sole official language of france, always been hence French was the official language of French Algeria (1830-1962). All Pied-Noir spoke French with a secondary European language being the German-dialect Alsatian (Alsatian people migrated to Algeria colony after the annexion of the Alsace and Lorraine in the Prussian war of 1870) and other latin languages being Spanish or Italian (or other latin languages dialects spoke in spain, corsica, malta and sicilia). Few of them knew arabic language, like few very French colons in Indochina spoke Vietnamese since French was actually the language taught at school, indigenous had to learn the colonial language it was not the opposite. In Algeria there was no de facto apartheid (despite the colon lived in urban area while the muslim lived in the outskirts or being nomadic - algeria was a low density 10 million underpopulated large territory) and the arab kids went to french school to get a french education. A bit like the use of French language was forbidden in the former French colony of Louisiana by the U.S. Consider the Pied-Noir in the likes of the Cajun culture. hope it helps. Paris By Night 17:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

p.s. french language is still spoken in free algeria in some TV news and newspapers. it is reminiscent of the century of french education to indigenous i was talking about. today algeria is francophone, colonial algeria was french. Paris By Night 17:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Original research

Many English-language sources, among them the U.S. Department of State, define the "French people" as an ethnic group, consisting of a "Celtic and Latin" majority, with "Teutonic, Slavic, North African, Sub-Saharan African, Indochinese, and Basque minorities". Celtic and Latin could be viewed as the original "ethnic French" population originating in what today is considered metropolitan France[citation needed]. However, this definition is contested for a variety of reasons:

Can we see some sources for (a) the many English-language sources making those claims, and (b) the scholars who contest them for a variety of reasons? Miskin 14:28, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the section 'The problematic definition of the "French people"' is problematic in itself. This is not a very encyclopedic section name, nor does the section's content say anything important enough to be at the top of the article. If this is an article of the French people then it should put its focus on the history of France itself, not of other regions of the world which may or may not contain descendants of French crusaders, colonists and ex-pats. Plus the vast majority of those claims are unsourced anyway. The first paragraph which speaks of the definition of "French people" in terms of official versus extremist definition, though a pragmatic question, it needs to be sourced and moved to a different article such as Politics of France maybe. Miskin 14:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

i agree with Miskin, i dislike such sections with oriented titles. titles have to be short, neutral and factual, this one is the french wikipedia way. i dislike the whole article by the way. IMHO it focuses too much on the muslim minority like if the muslim were the most important french. they are only one part of the minorities. others who don't put the mess in the suburbs and are never seen on tv like the indochinese and the chinese are overlooked. however those were in metropolitan france before the north african who came in two waves in the 1960s & the 1980s. Paris By Night 06:04, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I dont think the article focuses too much on the muslim "minority". It is true that Muslims (mostly Arabized Berber) are, for now, still a "minority" as they represent 12-15 % of the whole population (12% is a lot more than the Basques, the Alsaciens or the Corsicans...). But in main cities they represent more : for example 15% in Paris and Lyon, 25% in Marseille, 30% in Mulhouse and even 50% in Roubaix. And more important if we take into account only the young people (< 24y) as 50% of the muslims are under 24, the percentage is about 25-35 % in most french cities (Jonathan Laurence & Justin Vaisse, Intégrer l'Islam, Odile Jacob, 2007, p.40). It is also true that most of the Muslims arrived in France after the 1950s, but thousands of them settled around Toulouse after the conquest of Spain (711) and again after the Reconquista many of them settled in south of france after converted themselves to christianity (see Jonathan Laurence & Justin Vaisse). The first known interethnic mariage between a "French" woman and a North-African occurred in the 8th century when Odo the Great's daughter, Lampagie, got married to Munuza, a Berber, governor of the Cerdagne...(event mentionned in Chronique mozarabe (754) & Gesta episcoporum Autissiodorensium de Bourgogne). Today many famous "french stars" like Edith Piaf, Daniel Prévost, Jacques Villeret, Dany Boon, Alain Baschung, Isabelle Adjani and many others... all have at least a parent, or grand-parent from North-Africa--Rpetit 16:04, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

OP, you use the words "many sources" and you go on to say that even one of the largest agencies in the world even say it. Wikipedia is not about reporting the truth, it is about compiling what is in many respected sources. So those sources could say that the french, on average comparison to Americans, have very small pensis. Many respected sources say it. Like the rules say, it's not about the truth, it's about the sources, so this is a null issue. JayKeaton 20:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

About Angelina Jolie...

Born Angelina Jolie Voight in Los Angeles, California, she is the daughter of actors Jon Voight and the late Marcheline Bertrand. Macheline Bertrand was a french-quebecan woman, And thus Angelina has her family which results from the French people. Some years ago Angelina adopted a new family name as "Jolie" (which means in English "pretty girl" synonym of the french "belle") on the place of "Voight" (her father is of East-european origin). In the French people is considered also the 10 millions of french americans' origin, and I think that she is in the lot. Comments are welcome!

--Irrintzi 12:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Pretty girl = 'Jolie fille' in French not 'Belle'. 'Belle' = Beautiful Ericd 00:42, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

With regard to Angelina Jolie, I am not sure that having a French Canadian mother qualifies her as a "French" personality, she is a US citizen, was born in the US, and live and work in the US... In any case, having 12 pix of French most influential people doesn't improve this article in my opinion. For example the Spanish people article presents only four, Italian people six and English people eight for that matter - Wikigi | talk to me | 12:48, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

J'attendais ta réaction. Well, It's true, but in that case, we don't speak about French but The French people, and it's a complex and very vague differentiation. For other related articles, I shall encourage the others to put more images, Wikigi, on one hand these images are pulled by Wikipedia and thus they don't viol any rules. Effectively, for Angelina maybe that I shall get rid of this image, I shall want to put another current famous character, as French sportsman. But there is another problem, the man whom I wish to put is a non-Caucasian man ethnically, once again, is it possible to put peoples stemming from the immigration who have the french citizenship?

--Irrintzi 13:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Personally I just find it comical to include Angelina Jolie as a representative of the French people, and I'm really surprised to see that there are arguments in favour of this. There is simply nothing French about her. If the famous sportsman you're thinking of is Zizou then I don't see how the "non-caucasian" thing is a criterion (though he is clearly caucasian anyway). Zizou is French, Angelina Jolie is not - simple as that. The peoples who are stemming from the immigration are also French. One of them is the President of France today. Please, let's keep the racial theories to a minimum. French Canadians are not French, they're French Canadian. But Jolie is none of the above, she's an American. Miskin 14:11, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree with the above - Wikigi | talk to me | 14:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello Miskin, I includes your opinion clearly, I am going to delete the Angelina's image, because I admit to have made a mistake and she certainly doesn't fit to the criterion (however I have to underline that several persons make the confusion on its origins and nationality). In what conserne the propallid of "racial theories", because of my origins and my politic positions, I see bad being a xenophobe, ok. I didn't speak about Zidane but a sub-saharian african, but it's true that Zizou isn't a bad idea. But there is almost a problem, I prefer to have a woman image because the proportion man-woman would be little disproportionated...

Eskerrik asko! Thanks!

--Irrintzi 08:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey! I finished the modification, I put the Diam's image one of the most famous French rappers, who corresponds with the the current French people.

--Irrintzi 09:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

2001 soccer game France vs Algeria

Following a double revert made on the subject here is more information with regard to that particular event :

This Decision of the FIFA Disciplinary Committee, dated November 13 , 2001, states :

- “Although almost 50,000 fans of Algerian nationality/origin were present in the stadium,” the match progressed according to plan.
.../...
In this case, the supporters who invaded the pitch wore garments that clearly showed that they supported the visiting team, Algeria. However, Algeria had never received any match tickets from the FFF to sell to its own supporters. Consequently, Algeria cannot be held responsible for the supporters in question, irrespective of whether they were Algerians or French of Algerian origin.

This BBC article, Thuram fury at invading fans, dated October 8, 2001, reports :

But already the celebration was shadowed when the Marseillaise was booed. "When we realised that the Stade was booing La Marseillaise, we could not believe our ears," Thuram added.
 
"We all looked at each other and wondered: 'What is happening? What are they doing?"
 
"I was not expecting that at all. The Algerian anthem was not booed, there was respect for Algeria, so why did these young people, who were born in France most of them, boo their country's anthem?

Lilian Thuram was on the field wasn't he? And he cannot be suspected of racism, can he? The crowd that booed the French anthem and finally ruined the game, was made of either French citizens of Algerian descent or immigrants from Algeria and other regions of North Africa, not by supporters coming from Algeria for the game.

Now, you keep editing this article under a different IP each time (90.36.149.109 - 90.36.145.161 - 90.14.106.195 - 90.28.230.214 - 90.28.98.100 - 90.14.111.68 etc.., all registered with Wanadoo France, city of Annecy), please have the courtesy of registering on wikipedia so one could start a discussion on your personal page and stop reverting edits without presenting a well documented explanation - Wikigi | talk to me | 15:52, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry but they dont say anywhere that these Algerian hooligans were FRENCH CITIZENS (only "whether they were Algerians or French of Algerian origin" which means in fact that ... we dont know really about their citizenship ...and I dont think Thuram checked their passports). That's the problem. Many Algerian leave in France and are not french citizens. Communauté algérienne en France : 900 000 personnes, dont près de 450 000 bi-nationaux

We are talking about french citizens not algerian, or chinese ...

So just find an official source (from the french police for example) where it is written "French citizens of algerian origin stopped the game" and the discussion will be over...--90.36.149.109 16:52, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Listen, I cannot tell if this is a game or if you're just stiff, I'm afraid it's both. All started because of your previous edit when you stated being a French-Italian and insisted that French citizens of South-European extraction support their parents countries football teams. You seem to think that a guy from LA living in New York City or Paris and cheering for the Lakers is an important fact worth to be reported. Now you have been trying to mess with this article by spreading tags all over this portion of the article (here and there). I have tried to step up to the plate, now, find these references yourself if you don't like the ones I have found, you are the one requesting them and your contribution to wikipedia seems to be limited to this article. I have better things to do - Wikigi | talk to me | 17:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The point is that you are trying to show (without citing reliable sources) that French citizens from north-african descent are not assimilated (like the far-right says but I remind you that Wiki is an encyclopedia not a forum...) but most of them are. For example did you know that many "famous" french people like Edith Piaf, Alain Mimoun, Jean Amrouche, Isabelle Adjani, Marcel Mouloudji, Daniel Prévost, Jacques Villeret, Alain Bashung, Dany Boon and many others all have at least a Berber parent or grand-parent from Algeria ? And now only 45 years after the Algerian war we have 3 (out of 33) people of north-african descent who are members of the Sarkozy's government. How many centuries did it take you to "assimilate" black people and have some of them in your government ?--90.14.237.141 19:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Weren't you the one editing this article only to add French citizens of South-European extraction to French citizens from North African descent? And now you patronize me, calling me a far-right activist?
FYI, the first African American elected to US congress was John Willis Menard in... 1868 - Wikigi | talk to me | 08:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Vercingetorix

Why is Vercingetorix shown as a Frenchman? He lived long before the Franks established the beginings of France, the French culture, and the French ethnic identity. When Vercingetorix was alive, "France" and "French" hadn't even entered the world's vocabular. He was a Gaul, ie a (Romano-)Celt, not a Frenchmen. Harel Newman 00:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

The Franks did not established the French ethnic identity at all. The Franks were very few. All the Germanic tribes that settled in Gaul never represented all together more than 200.000 people, in comparison with the Gallo-Roman people that was at this time about 5-6 millions (french encyclopedia Quid 2007).

this is indeed as silly as saying Sargon of Akkad was a member of the Assyrian people. This is pure romantic nationalism, not more and not less. Please cut this article down to something reasonable. It should treat an ethnic identity, not rehash History of France and Gaul. At present, all it does is make the French look like nationalist fools. The discussion should begin in the 15th century, when the idea of a French nation first emerged, and refer to other articles for the discussion of earlier periods. dab (&#55304;&#56435;) 12:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Right or wrong, in French history, Gaul is regarded as the base for main French land and Vercingetorix a national hero for defending it against the Romans. Vercingetorix came from Gergovia, a village located near Clermont-Ferrand, in the heart of France.

See the map of Gaul next to current map of France. Now, I won't argue that Vercingetorix was "French" but it certainly has something to do with the ethnic identity of the French people - Wikigi | talk to me | 13:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

gergovia was in the heart of gaul not france since france did not existed. your are right Harel, i have replaced vercingetorix the gaul (proto-french) by hugh capet true french as first king of france. by the way i have replaced all non french born pictures with real french. not jokes à la mode like diams. diams is not really the same stuff as joan of arc... Paris By Night 06:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Here we are, discussing if Vercingetorix should be part of the list and you show up and switch half of them (6), and with comments such as "replaced leftist activist (segolene royal supporters) pics with real french icons (sorry but "diams" is not really the same as joan of arc... and this fatty girl is not born in france!)" or "pic: replaced vercingetorix with capet first king of france (vercingetorix was not a french, not even a frank but a damn gaul !)". A great lesson of democracy (française?) for all. Thanks - Wikigi | talk to me | 08:13, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

There is no time for such pointless discussions. Learn History and that's all. France was created in 843, before it wasn't france and thus Vercingetorix was not french, he was not even a Frank. About whatever lessons, before being a democracy with socialo-communist activists like Diams (she supported segolene royal and represents NOTHING outside the small french rapper wannabe community on top of this she's not even french born), or gerard depardieu (recently he went on pilgrimage at cuba to support fidel castro who is a worthless dictator) it was a monarchy. France is a democracy since very recently compared to its long running history. Democracy weakened france by giving exagerated power to worthless minorities, ever heard about the communist CGT & Co.? Emmanuel beart is bourgeois socialist activist supporting trespassers immigrants, she uses agit-prop. Diams is a famous antisarkoy and sarkozy was elected by the majority, hence she represents a minority, this is true democracy not a reversed oligarchy. Catherine Deneuve has much more language versions in wikipedia than your the socialist icons i removed (actually i was surprised segolene royal wasn't in the list too...). Catherine deneuve represents France at his best since a long time, have a look at her articles in other languages and you'll see. Bardot is a french icon of the 60s in the world. Diams did not achieved this. France's history is made of coup, even the 5th republic was born from the 1958 coup of algiers. The declaration of the 1958 constitution's decorum does not look like much republican to me. and de gaulle was nicknamed the "souverain". France lost all world territories and power she possessed as an empire because of the assholes at the head of the fourth republic, and segolene said she would give independance to corsica and new caledony if elected. by the way, not every french are republican and there are Bonaparte sons living yet if you get what I mean. Paris By Night 23:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Unless you pretend that each and every French is an immigrant that came in after 843, your point is moot. Anyone who ever lived within the limits of what is known today as France has contributed to its roots and has a place in the French history book. I won't comment on the rest of your silly propaganda - Wikigi | talk to me | 08:46, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

nonsense. If France was created in 843, the first French became French in 843. Of course their history reaches farther back, but Gauls are Gauls, and as such ancestors of the French, but not French themselves. It's simply not illustrative to display images of Cro Magnon or Beaker people to illustrate the article on the French people even if it is undisputed that the Cro Magnon have "contributed to France's roots". dab (&#55304;&#56435;) 09:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

What was a tree before it was called a tree? - Wikigi | talk to me | 08:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

There was a time when there were no trees and their ancestors are not called trees. But don't you see the difference between national identity and biological classification? The Gauls were not French and the French are not Gauls. Why is it so hard for some people to get? Yes, Celtic people most of the territory that we nowadays call Metropolitan France before the Roman conquest, but so were northen Italy, the British isles, Germany, Belgium and the Iberian peninsula too. Why don't the Italians claim to be Gauls as well? Throughout history the people has moved quite a lot and the French people has ancestors from all over Europe and indeed the world (like all the Western European nations). Aaker 11:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Regarding emmigration in the 15th to 18th century period

Why list Acadia, Canada and Louisiana separately, and even worse, as provinces? At the height of French colonization, all three were referred to collectively as New France. AFAIK, none was ever considered a French province; they were colonies, and Canada was never used as an official territory name during French dominion over these areas. 70.54.255.66 19:54, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Stupidités

Bravo aux VANDALES qui se sont amusés à changer les images... Le gas qui dit que Diam's n'est pas une Icône n'a visiblement aucune idée de ce qu'il dit, Diam's ne vaut pas Jeanne D'arc? Diam's est un phénomène social et charismatique, elle regroupe la jeunesse française. Je préfère encore Diam's que vous traitez de pro-sociale à Bardot pro-FN, et chanteuse oubliée des français. Merci aux détracteurs. --Irrintzi 12:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I moved De Gaulle and F. De Lesseps because of their contreversial history. I replaced G. Depardieu because of his international artist career (great fims as 1492: Conquest of Paradise or Green Card and other 50 films), Colette (only woman who had national burials), and Diam's for reasons quoted above.

--Irrintzi 13:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Le gros problème de Diam's est qu'elle n'est pas "gauloise" mais chypriote, donc elle n'a rien à faire dans les Français emblématiques. De plus, elle est très peu connue en dehors de l'hexagone. Si vous voulez mettre une chanteuse mettez Edith Piaf diantre ! Je conseille fortement aux éditeurs francos de cette page de s'inspirer de la page consacrée aux anglais, qui est un petit bijou comparé à celle ci. Tanagarth 20:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)TanagarthTanagarth 20:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Effectivement Edith Piaf est bcp plus connue et plus représentative du "melting-pot" puisque sa grand-mère maternelle était nord-africaine, donc ajoutez sa photo.

Diams sur cette page? C'est une farce ou du délire? Pourquoi pas Brice de Nice plutot? Matthieu 14:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Je supporte pas Diam's. Hereusement elle est partie. C'est la honte d'avoir sa photo ici...--Burgas00 16:52, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

C'est absolument sûr que Diam's n'est pas Gauloise. Mais; qui l'est? Les Français d'aujourd'hui n'ont aucun rapport avec ce peuple celtique. Aaker 11:22, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Icône charismatique my rear end ! Comment peut-on oser mettre cette imbécile achevée comme un symbole de la France... Elle ne sait même pas parler Français correctement...--88.138.198.193 (talk) 15:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Français issus de l'immigration non-européenne

Des estimations diverses circulent sur le nombre de Français qui sont issus de l'immigration non-européenne. L’estimation qui est basée sur des chiffres officiels de l’immigration est la suivante : il y a en France deux tiers d’Européens d'origine et un tiers avec au moins un ançêtre récent d'origine extra-européenne. L’estimation est basée sur le fait qu’à partir des années 1950, la très grosse majorité du flux d’immigration en France est d’origine non-européenne (surtout d’origine africaine : Noirs et nord-africains).

Voici, en résumé, d’après les nombres officiels d’entrée des étrangers, les éléments de cette estimation :

-premier nombre officiel : chaque année 100 000 immigrés clandestins supplémentaires entrent en France. Le nombre d’immigrés clandestins est stable (entre 200 000 et 400 000) puisque ceux qui sont présents obtiennent d’une façon ou d’une autre la régularisation (mariage, naissance d’enfant sur le sol européen, etc.) et ils sont remplacés dans les statistiques par de nouveaux arrivés.

-deuxième nombre officiel : il y a chaque année en moyenne 140 000 immigrés officiels en provenance hors d’Union européenne.

Lien qui confirme 100 000 immigrés clandestins supplémentaires par an : http://www.rfi.fr/actufr/articles/076/article_43041.asp

Citation : « Le ministre de l’Intérieur Nicolas Sarkozy considère qu’entre 200 000 et 400 000 clandestins seraient présents sur le territoire et entre 80 000 et 100 000 supplémentaires y entreraient chaque année. »

Lien qui confirme 160 000 immigrés réguliers hors ressortissants communautaires en 2005 (en moyenne 140 000 par an depuis 10 ans) : http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/misill/sections/a_l_interieur/le_ministre/interventions/06-06-2006-immigration/view

Citation : « Autre résultat encourageant : le flux global de l'immigration régulière est stabilisé, pour la première fois depuis dix ans. Le nombre des premiers titres de séjour délivrés, hors ressortissants communautaires, a même légèrement baissé en 2005, pour atteindre 164 234 titres (- 2%). »

Premier nombre officiel plus deuxième nombre officiel, cela donne 240 000 entrées par an. En 50 ans ça fait 12 000 000.

Donc l’estimation qui donne 10 000 000 d’entrées d’origine non-européenne depuis 50 ans, est proche de la réalité. Si aux 10 000 000 d’entrées d’origine non-européenne depuis 50 ans on rajoute la descendance, cela donne l’estimation d’environ 20 000 000 Français avec au moins un ançêtre récent d’origine non-européenne sur une population totale de 63 000 000.

Isn't this the English Wikipedia !!? - Wikigi | talk to me | 09:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Not anymore... the invasion has begun :P Polletfa (talk) 20:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Well it is original research in anycase, so not really relevant.--Burgas00 11:02, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

20 000 000 bien sûr... En 50 ans il n'y a aucun immigré qui est mort ! Ericd 01:01, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Advice?

I have just attended my first class in beginners French. It is really great and I am now finding that it is not only a lovely language but France is an extremely fasinating place.
Consequently, my enhanced interest in the culture is not matched by my ability to speak French. My intention is to speak as fluently as I can, so if anyone has any advice or tips they would like to pass on to me that would be brilliant! For example, what is the right sound to use for 'e'?
Regards from QueenLucy.Queenlucy 15:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

You may want to visit this page : E - French Pronunciation of E. Regards - Wikigi | talk to me | 09:15, 30 September 2007 (UTC)