Talk:French corvette Diligente (1801)

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Not Captured at Martinique?

Up until yesterday we had a piece of text, with references, to Diligente being captured at Saint-Pierre, Martinique in 1809. AcadRonin, are those references wrong? Cenedi (talk) 16:25, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I note also that the article Invasion of Martinique (1809) refers to Diligente's capture at that time. Cenedi (talk) 17:22, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Cenedi, Those references do appear to be wrong. They just don't match Diligente's history from French websites specializing in Naval history. These are pretty clear on the history, and that history is what I have put down here. Because of her importance as the name vessel for a class, and her design characteristics, I just can't see anyone not mentioning that she was captured and how she returned to French service.

Diligente (1801) probably did go on to Martinique, and there appears to have been a Diligente captured there and taken into English service, but they do not appear to be the same vessel. Tonnages are different (Diligente 1801 being 472 or even more, and Diligente at Martinique being 371), armament (20 guns vs, 18), and the history. I am still trying to track down what happened, but so far have been stymied. My suspicion is that the captured Diligente was an earlier corvette Diligente of 18 guns, one that operated during the American Revolution and in the quasi-war, and that somehow ended up in semi-retirement in Martinique. But I haven't found anything that would enable me to be definitive one way or the other on that hypothesis. Consequently, I removed the earlier discussion of her supposed capture, and haven't linked to the History of Martinique site.

I have ordered a copy of Rif Winfield's 1793-1815 book to see what he says but it hasn't arrived yet. Rif is currently out of town so I can't email him with my questions. Rest assured that this puzzle continues to nag at me and I will continue to try to tease out an answer. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:27, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that swift answer. I had been wondering if there might in fact have been two Diligentes - if so, it's quite a coincidence that they were placed so close to one another in the almost the same time-frame. Your efforts to elucidate the mystery much appreciated. Cenedi (talk) 18:52, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There do seem to have been two Diligentes. Winfield does not identify the one captured at Martinique with the one that Recruit fought. Instead he remarks that we don't know anything about the prior history of the vessel taken at Martinique. It is a coincidence, but not a massive one. Some names are just popular and keep popping up. For example, in 1805 one British vessel captured both a Diligente and a Diligent, both privateers and hence neither one our French corvette.Acad Ronin (talk) 16:44, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting anyway! Thanks for that! Cenedi (talk) 16:53, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How many masts?

The opening sentence in the entry describes Diligente as a brig but the illustration shows her with three masts. Do we know the date of the illustration? Did she gain a mizzenmast during her conversion to aviso? Anyone know? Cenedi (talk) 16:36, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Cenedi, no reason to believe she was ever a brig. All the sources I have looked at simply describe her as a corvette or corvette aviso. The following website:

[1] clearly states that she has three masts. So, I would change "brig" to corvette, or sloop corvette, or whatever else you think is more appropriate and descriptive. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:56, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed 'brig' to 'corvette'. Napier himself describes her as a corvette (Napier, 1862, p. 16), though he also says she had 22 guns rather than 20. Cenedi (talk) 11:51, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As you know, a vessel's rating and the number of cannons that she actually carried were only loosely related. Roche lists her armament as 18 carronades, but that doesn't preclude the presence of some guns. The British could have been rated her a 20 even though she carried 22, and even though the French thought of her as an 18. From my Army days I recall that in a combat zone units may accumulate all sorts of weapons and other stuff that isn't actually on their Table of Organization and Equipment (TO&E).Acad Ronin (talk) 12:55, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]