Talk:Frederick Wall

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Football: England / Arsenal Low‑importance

	Association football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	English football portal This article is supported by the English football task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Arsenal task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

England Low‑importance

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that a photograph be included in this article to improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Hogan

I've removed (without intending to edit war) the following text:

and famously called Jimmy Hogan a traitor after the latter spent the duration of World War I in Europe.[1]

and replaced (as a compromise) with this:

Notably, Wall refused on behalf of the FA to offer wartime financial compensation to famed Anglo-Irish coach Jimmy Hogan, on the basis of the latter's perceived co-operation with the Central Powers during the First World War (Hogan had coached Hungarian side MTK Budapest whilst interned as an enemy alien during the conflict).[1]

What the reference given actually says is this:

The outbreak of the first world war found him coaching in Austria. On the day war was declared he was woken at dawn and thrown into prison. He remained an internee for the duration but was allowed to go to Hungary where he worked with the MTK club who formed the basis of the national team that would develop into the great side of the 1950s. However, when the war ended he returned to England and was told that men who had suffered financially as a result of the war could claim £200 from the FA. He was almost destitute but when he went to London the secretary, Frederick Wall, opened a cupboard and offered him a pair of khaki socks:

"We sent these to the boys at the front and they were grateful." The unsubtle message was: "Traitor."

It obviously doesn't state that Wall "famously" called Hogan a traitor. It doesn't state that Wall called Hogan a traitor at all in fact (there is another reference to that word in the article, but in connection with Billy Wright's views, not Wall's, and in a subtly different context). Clearly the use of the word "traitor" is the writer's personal inference, and not a quote (or even a direct perception) to be attributed to Wall. That doesn't mean he didn't say it or think it (he certainly didn't hold Hogan in high esteem, by any means), but it does mean we can't use that reference to demonstrate it.

If you don't agree and revert again, then please let's continue the discussion here and then if required take it to a neutral third party for another opinion. Badgerpatrol (talk)

There's also this which states "He briefly came home in 1918, where he was called a traitor by the Football Association for working abroad during the war." Giant Snowman 12:44, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]