Talk:Frederick V of the Palatinate

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Titles

The titles given for this man's children are an absolute mess. Every member of the family was a count or countess palatine and a duke or duchess of Bavaria. Charles 00:06, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Translation

I'm going to attempt to translate the German featured article. If anyone wants to help out, they'd be very welcome. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 14:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Sam. It seems unclear why Czech translations are needed in the English article. Does the Czech article provide English translations? Let me know if you can still use help with translating the German article (I wrote part of that article myself).

--dunnhaupt 23:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification

I added the words, "an act that is frequently cited as the final impetus for the outbreak of the Thirty Year's War," to emphasize the importance of the act of accepting the Crown of Bohemia was at the time. Glengese 19:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New file File:Frederick V, King of Bohemia by Gerrit van Honthorst.jpg

Recently the file File:Frederick V, King of Bohemia by Gerrit van Honthorst.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 07:38, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Holy Roman Imperial Election

Quoth the article:

"On 26 August 1619, the states of the Bohemian Confederacy elected Frederick as new King of Bohemia; Frederick first learned of his election on 29 August in Amberg.[4]

Two days later, Ferdinand II was elected as Holy Roman Emperor. Frederick was the only elector who voted against Ferdinand; even the Protestant electors John George I, Elector of Saxony and John Sigismund, Elector of Brandenburg voted for Ferdinand."

Did Frederick cast, or attempt to cast, the Bohemian electoral vote as well as the Palatine vote? Was there any provision for double voting in scenarios where more than one electorate was held by the same person? Did Fedinand, who still claimed the Bohemian throne as well, also vote, or attempt to vote, for himself? --Jfruh (talk) 02:07, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Elizabeth Stuart is not Elizabeth of England

The box on the right incorrectly says "Spouse Elizabeth of England". I suggest correcting it to "Elizabeth Stuart".

Even the link takes you to the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_of_the_Palatinate where there is no mention of Elizabeth Stuart being Elizabeth of England. That title belongs to the only Elizabeth of England, from the Welsh Tudor dynasty. 153.98.68.196 (talk) 13:03, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Siblings

This section is incomplete and could use some detailed information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JfpOne23 (talk • contribs) 23:23, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Both sides of the discussion highlighted relevant scholars who used their preferred name; per the evidence provided, neither the current title nor the proposed one seems to be a clear WP:COMMONNAME. (non-admin closure) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 18:02, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Frederick V of the Palatinate → Frederick V, Elector Palatine – The page was removed on the argument that he was better known as King of Bohemia. However, the current title seems to be a combination of his Bohemian and Palatine titles. 67.173.23.66 (talk) 02:50, 21 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 01:05, 29 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 晚安 (トークページ) 15:54, 15 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose~~ Neutral. Er, no. The numeral "V" refers to the Palatinate line. He's the 5th Elector of the Palatinate called Frederick (his father was Frederick IV of the Palatinate). There were no Bohemian kings called Frederick before - he would be Fred I of Bohemia. And no, he is not better known by that name. Walrasiad (talk) 23:37, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The thing is none of the other Elector Palatine's article are listed as "X of the Palatinate", they're listed as "X, Elector Palatine", so this seems to be the outlier. This current article was moved with the reason "He was also King of Bohemia, and probably more famous for that", which doesn't seem to explain the choice to move it to the current form, which is why I suggested it be reverted to the prior name.67.173.23.66 (talk) 12:44, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hm. I see your point. But "Elector Palatine" by itself feels rather naked without "of the Rhine". I'm used to either the shortened form "of the Palatinate" or the fuller "Elector Palatine of the Rhine". But that maybe just a personal preference. Walrasiad (talk) 03:40, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Switching from "Oppose" to "Neutral" for now. Nonetheless, I will note that WP:NCROY urges against using noble titles in the article titles ("King X of Y" should be merely "X of Y"), particularly for numbered monarchs. That suggests "Frederick V of Palatinate" would follow the naming convention, whereas "Fred V, Elector Palatine" would violate it. In the name of WP:CONSISTENCY, I might be reconciled with an exception if that is the case across all Electors Palatine of the Rhine, given that a mass move to "Palatinate" would be less likely to succeed. I would still prefer it, but I am not going to oppose it. Walrasiad (talk) 16:45, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Joachim Whaley in Germany and the Holy Roman Empire Volume 1 introduces Friedrich V as "Elector Friedrich V of the Palatinate", in contrast, he does not use "Friedrich V, Elector Palatinate" once. Joshua D. Muthi (talk) 00:11, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, following the usage of Nadine Akkerman, Elizabeth Stuart's current biographer. Eg "While her subsequent marriage to the Calvinist Frederick V, Elector Palatine, one of the most powerful princes of the Holy Roman Empire, took her to Heidelberg, the capital of the Lower Palatinate in Germany, it also made them European Protestantism’s new power couple. By 1621, they had challenged the emperor, been crowned king and queen of Bohemia, deposed, stripped of their German lands and titles, and exiled to the Dutch Republic."^[1]

See also the Amazon summary for the recent OUP book.^[2] I'm neutral about whether or not to add "of the Rhine". Somej (talk) 09:46, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The proposal is acceptable, but oppose per the book The Winter King: Frederick V of the Palatinate and the Coming of the Thirty Years' War by Brennan C. Pursell. The current title is fine and recognizable. I will note that Frederick, King of Bohemia is the title suggested by the guidelines. (And Pursell has a chapter titled "Frederick I, King of Bohemia".) Srnec (talk) 13:55, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Frederick is a figure who has an outsized presence in history compared to the other Electors Palatine, and so I think that WP:COMMONNAME applies here: if he's commonly known as "Frederick V of the Palatine" that should override stylistic consistency. I can't speak for the exact formula of his name but he is definitely more often referred to as Elector Palatine rather than King of Bohemia, so that title should be in his article title. --Jfruh (talk) 22:48, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Akkerman, Nadine. "Elizabeth Stuart: the treasonous portrait that touted Charles I's sister for the throne". History Extra. BBC. Retrieved 24 April 2022.
^ Akkerman, Nadine. "Elizabeth Stuart, Queen of Hearts". amazon.com. Oxford University Press. Retrieved 24 April 2022.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] Akkerman, Nadine. "Elizabeth Stuart: the treasonous portrait that touted Charles I's sister for the throne". History Extra. BBC. Retrieved 24 April 2022.

[2] Akkerman, Nadine. "Elizabeth Stuart, Queen of Hearts". amazon.com. Oxford University Press. Retrieved 24 April 2022.

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