Talk:Freddie Mercury/Archive 1

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death certificate

see for correct name (ext.). before before posting.

CAN SOMEONE ADD THE COPYRIGHT TO THIS? I dont know if it would be under the British gov or not.

Vocal Range (real)

In Queen - Live at Wembley, Mercury on "A Kind Of Magic" towards the end riff's out several consonant notes, with the audience following. Towards the end, Freddie says "I can't go any higher". I'll think you'll find that top note is a Baritone note. You'll also find he speaks in a Baritones bottom notes, making him a baritone. His higher notes are falsetto. Despite being an exceptionally brilliant singer, he is still confined by normal vocal range. His recorded range means little, as my recorded range peaks at F#6. I assure you I could not hit that note every day of the week, day in, day out. Vocal range is the ability to hit a note on command, he is not a tenor.--Manboobies 20:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you here. The thing that you have to understand is that Freddie Mercury had vocal nodules in the throat. For this reason, he often did not hit the highest notes in concerts, some of which were two hours long. Furthermore, it is possible that Freddie Mercury could have hit higher notes even that what was recorded. He was always so concerned about maintaining good tone that he may not have even hit his highest possible notes in public. Furthermore, his highest recorded not was actually recorded later on in his career. Perhaps he could have gone even higher when he was younger. At the end of the day, vocal range is not really what makes a great singer. What is important is TONE and Freddie Mercury maintained excellent tone over a three octave range.

By the way, if you think that your voice is in the same league as Freddie Mercury's voice, then let me give you a challenge. Try singing the second verse of "Another One Bites the Dust" without using a falsetto. I don't know too many tenors who can do that!! (TAY)

Also remember that Freddie had been smoking for close to 7 years by the time of the Wembley 86concert! If you listen to early Queen stuff his voice is much higher/ better than Wembley.

Whether Freddie had vocal nodules in his throat or not is none of my concern. Most singers sing lower and change key live, eg, metallica go down to C# Minor instead of E minor live. Now, as I said before, Freddie is a Baritone. There are several reasons for this.

Freddie spoke in around Ab2. That is a Baritone's speaking range. A baritone speaks in the bottom of a baritone's range. Freddie is not a tenor. A tenor speaks in a tenor's bottom notes. He does not (and I might note despite being gay he didn't even artificially raise his voice into a tenor's range which many gay people do). An ability to sing a note that is above one's Diapazon and in another's does not make one that higher diapazon. For the same reason many Rock singers are baritones despite their incredible ranges. Mercury is one of them. You also are personally attacking me, and my abilities and have made several inferences, and statements implying I have implied superiority & this is simply not the case.

Lastly, Freddie often donned Falsetto. This is notable in "Impromptu" on Live at Wembley. Those were Tenor notes. He couldn't hit them in real head voice. He is a Baritone.--Manboobies 20:48, 19 January 2006 (UTC) (Oh, and please sign your comments)

Thanks for your insight. I will try to incorporate some of these things in the original article without using terms that are too technical for non-musicians.

Gay versus bisexual

The most commonly edited lines are the ones involving whether Freddie Mercury was gay or bisexual and whether he was Indian or Persian. There seem to be constant editing wars over these two points. I think that he could be either gay or bisexual, depending on who you ask. as for the Indian vs. Persian issue, he considered himself to be Persian . Both of his parents were Persian after all. I do think that both of these subjects should be brought up on the page though, since I think that they are an important part of his identity.

I personally wold consider him to have been bi- because he had relations with people of both sexs... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.141.169.129 (talk • contribs) . (this comment was removed by 132.181.52.105; deletion reverted by Hbackman 02:08, 10 February 2006 (UTC))

Freddie never admitted to being Gay (or bisextual).

Never admitted to being gay???? Just go take a look at the video for "I Want to Break Free" and let's talk about "admitting" anything... Just look at ANY Queen video, or any footage of Freddie Mercury - he is about as subtly gay/queer/bi/not-straight as the Village People!... He absolutely REVELS in it - and more power to him! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.141.65.60 (talk • contribs) .

That doesn't mean anything, read the other section related to this topic for more info. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.181.52.105 (talk • contribs) .

--->see gay or bisextual for the continuation of this topic.

---

> See Iranian/Persian vs Indian for discussion on his nationality.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.181.52.105 (talk • contribs) .

Freddie's real name

Freddie's real name was actually "Farok". However, so many other sources incorrectly list it as "Farookh" and "Farrokh" that this error is hard to change. See Snday London Times article in talk page for proof of this.

Was it Farookh Bulsara or Farrokh Bulsara? I see a ton of hits on both spellings. Which is it? — Frecklefoot | Talk 23:33, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

It was Farrokh Bulsara, if I'm not mistaken. This was my comment and someone just combined it with the other one.-User: Afghan Historian

I think it´s a little bir erroneous to say that his being Iranian is erroneous after all he was of Parsee origin and that makes him an ethnical Iranian for the Parsees are originally from todays Iran;).He was an amazing artist inside and out and it´s an honor for Iranians to count him as one of theirs.

I read that Freddie real name is actually spelled "Farok". But yet that birth certificate link below looks pretty official. Does anyone know whether this certificate is real? When his mother pronounced it in a documentary, I specifically noted that she placed the emphasis on the first syllable.

Where is the evidence to support the claim that Freddie was born with Pluto as his middle name? Where is a link to the Nov. 23 1991 statement which would support or refute the claim that Freddie "came out as bisexual" in that statement?

I have edited this section many times to delete the name Pluto as it is misinformation to claim that Freddie was born with the middle name Pluto but it keeps getting put back up. Why is that? I thought anyone could make updates. The only places on line that claim Pluto was his middle names have copied their information from this site, which contains incorrect information. Here is a link to the birth certificate where you will find no mention of the name Pluto.

http://mr-mercury.co.uk/Images/Birthcertificatefreddie.jpg

---

If you look at the birth certificate, it clearly states by Nationality that Freddie was Indian. Not Iranian/Persian. 14:52, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Probably because his parents were citizens of India, nonetheless his parents were both originally Persian and Freddie and his parents considered themselves Persians (as opposed to Indian). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.181.52.105 (talk • contribs) .

His parents never considered themselves Persian, or said they did, at least. Only Freddie did and they were not merely Persians but Indian parsis of Persian descent. And, it is also contested as to whether Freddie really considered himself Persian or was just trying to cover up an Indian background. He had Persian forebears but they lived and developed in India way too long for him to be merely just a "Persian". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.221.1.62 (talk • contribs) .

gay or bisexual?

Can anyone tell me how to update this information?

I am also interested to find the justification for the claim that Freddie came out as bisexual in his final statement the day before his death. Curious because he wasn't in the closet as a bisexual as this had been the standard line given in the 70's. He was however in the closet as gay and I suspect that the person who wrote this is implying that he came out as gay in his statement. This is a transcript of Freddie's final statement:

"Following the enormous conjecture in the press over the last two weeks, I wish to confirm that I have been tested HIV positive and have AIDS. I felt it correct to keep this information private to date to protect the privacy of those around me. However, the time has come now for my friends and fans around the world to know the truth and I hope that everyone will join with my doctors and all those worldwide in the fight against this terrible disease. My privacy has always been very special to me and I am famous for my lack of interviews. Please understand this policy will continue."

So, where in that statement does he come out as gay, or even bisexual for that matter, as was claimed in the article?

Any help on getting this information updated?

Max says: I'm adding this interesting discussion because it got deleted in later version:

Why wikipedia doesn't mention that there's no single evidence besides his "friends", that he was gay? No single picture and no witness until he's dead? Interesting, huh?

Try visting a Gay Bar in Munich where there photos on the wall of F.M. and Barbara Valentine in that establishment. IsarSteve 12:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Freddie Mercury WAS GAY. End of history. People have to stop saying he was bisexual. He was not. He had sex with like 5 woman in his life, at most. Thats why I ask to the line "Freddy Mercury was bisexual, but never fully came out to the general public" to be removed or rewritten. Tomazrui 08:30, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

IsarSteve: You tell me that if I go visiting some random bar with my _girlfriend_ (girlfriend for christsakes) and that bar happens to be gay bar, that makes me gay, huh? Also very possible that it wasn't gay bar at that time. Tomazrui: Yeah, that's very strange "gay". Sleeped with 5 women and 0 men. Come on. I still insist that there's no single evidence that Freddie was gay. End of story.

Tom Oliver says: Freddie Mercury might have been gay in his head, but he was not gay in his heart. I dont know how you can dismiss the fact that he loved a woman and call him gay, becasue life is not as black and white as that. Just look at the photographs of him and Mary Austin and then listen to the song 'Love of my life' and tell me again that he was 100% gay. There is more passion in his voice in that song for Mary Austin than there is in any song ever writen previous and prior.

To Tom Oliver: Man, are you serious? Please tell me you are kidding. Tomazrui

This is fascinating but not very helpful for the article. If there are reputable sources that say he was gay, we say he was gay. If there aren't, we don't say anything. That's how Wikipedia works. Stevage 19:54, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Max says: Stevage, the problem is that there are no reputable sources... The only reputable sources would be the photos with his lovers (sorry, not that faked one with the cat and another dude who written a porno book and claimed to be Freddie's lover).. Or Freddie admitting himself he's gay... The fact is that there's no reputable source indeed... That's a tale people keep telling each other after Freddie's death... Also the fact is that Freddie is very charismatic and handsome, also being from different culture... And certain people interpret it in wrong ways. For instance "I want to break free" video - anybody familiar with Parsi culture will tell you that it's very common for artist to wear woman's clothes there)... Why nobody's saying that Roger was gay (huh.. what a cutie in that video..) or Brian? It's very interesting idea to ponder... And when I listen for Queen again and again, it gives a whole new meaning of all the text... Sad guy who loved the woman and in the end given up... Pretty interesting, huh? MaxStafford 17:37, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

In my mind it's simple.Gay people consider Freddie to be their ticket for acceptance(hey, if he was gay, gay people cant be that bad).In a way, they fear that if they accept he was bi, they will lose their "flagship", so to speak.He wasnt straight,but i think that Tom Oliver's comment about "Love of ny Life" is the best comment in this forum.Deny it if you will, but you'll not change my mind.Of course, it doesnt really matter.Whether he was gay,bi,straight or a eunich, this is absolutely not what he would like us to remember him for.Let us rather admire and cherish his music and his neverdying spirit.He wasnt Freddie Mercury due to his sexual preferences, but rather due to his talent and personality.I bet he s laughing at us right now..-A.C.

That's private!!

Who the (sorry) is interested in the private life of anybody? I've delete the part about that!

Sorry, dude. If you're a public figure, you kind of have to get used to that. I restored it. — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:33, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

And I have deleted it!!

Don't do that again, please. Wikipedia provides relevant, notable and encyclopaedic information, and the information you removed qualifies as that. You might not be interested in it, but in that case it's better just not to read it rather than delete it. Worldtraveller 13:59, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Ok I don't want to fight with you. Stay with your opinion, but I wanna say that the official sites of Queen don't publish such informations you did here. Why do you write so much about his sexual life? In an encyclopedia you'll never find such detailed informations!

A.M. 17 May 2005

I'd just point out that it would be a very rare biography that didn't contain details of someone's personal relationships etc. Queen fan sites are aimed at a different audience and contain different information. I hope you'll keep on contributing to this and other subjects - you might consider signing up for an account as well, although it's not mandatory of course. Worldtraveller 15:52, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Queen sites are aimed for a much better audience, who isn't interested in such things. Today many people want to know who sleeps with whom in the prominent world. A.M. 19 MAy 2005

People!!! Who cares if he was gay or whoever. He was a great man, talented and genious. What he did in his private life, who he slept with - was up to him. I personaly don't give a damn. All I know (I do mean I know) he was a nice human being, generous, cared about others and created great music.

nine #1 hits

"Bohemian Rhapsody": Topped the charts of Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, the Netherlands and the UK.

"Love Of My Life": #1 in Argentina for an entire year

"Somebody To Love": #1 in The Netherlands in its original release, and in the UK in a cover version by Brian May, Roger Taylor, John Deacon, Mike Moran and George Michael

"We Are The Champions": #2 in the UK; #2 in the US; #1 in France for 13 weeks

"Crazy Little Thing Called Love": #1 in Australia, Canada, Ireland, Mexico, New Zealand, Holland and the United States

"Under Pressure": Credited to Queen & Bowie, but essentially Mercury's according to bassist John Deacon. Melody and lyrics were created by both Mercury and Bowie. #1 hit in Argentina, Canada, the Netherlands and the UK. A 1999 remix topped the charts in Czech Republic. In 1990, rap artist Vanilla Ice sampled the main bassline on his worldwide #1 hit "Ice Ice Baby".

"Living On My Own": Originally recorded in 1985, a remix was released after his death and topped the charts in the UK

"Innuendo": Again credited to the band, but Mercury was the principal writer (with input from drummer Roger Taylor in lyrics). It was #1 in the UK and South Africa

"I'm Going Slightly Mad": Credited to Queen but composed by Freddie, this track topped the charts in Hong Kong in spring 1991

Iranian/Persian or Indian?

Last week I read an article about Queen and it mentioned of how Freddie was always proud of his "Iranian" ancestry. So, did Freddie see himself as more of an Indian Parsee or an Iranian? I really need to know!

By Farrokh Dasturi:

Hi I am an Indian Parsi. They way I see it Farrokh ( we both share the same first name), identified himself as Iranian, simply to downplay is Indian heritage. Most Indians especially some of the monrities are ashamed of their Indian heritage, just like Jews of yesteryear America and many Hollywood stars and pop musicians of Jewish origin changed their name and even denied their Jewish heritage).

Farrokh Bulsara is not the only Indian to deny his heritage, there are some other minorities too, eg : Guy Sebastian ( Pop idol in Australia is of Indian -Sri lankan Catholic parents..he even goes as far as to claim that he has some Portuguese blood), Sir Cliff Richard ( This legendry rock star never admits to his Anglo Indian heritage and is content with the masses ignorant that he is simply British), Englebert Humpendrick ( another anglo Indian from Chennai), Norah Jones ( 5 time grammy winner, denial of Indian heritage although she is the daughter of Pundit Ravi Shankar), so are the lead guitarists of the Californian uber rock band of the 90's Sound garden ( Kim Thyall) and Sum 41 ( popular punk rock band : Dave Baksh), fortunately Dave Baksh has a strong Dravidic ( dark skinned) look to clearly identify him as an Indian. The Bassist and long time boyfriend of Gwen Stefani i.e. No Doubt's Thomas Kunal is known for using fake contacts and confusing people as to his actual Indian heritage. Many more out there you never know !

The way I understood it was that he saw the idea of him being Persian as seeming more glamourous for his stage personality than being Indian.....I recall a controversy where Queen performed at Sun City in South Africa, when Apartheid was in full effect. There was quite a backlash against Queen for "endorsing racism." I believe that it wasn't until after his death that Freddie Mercury's Asian origin became widely known, for instance there was some surprise that he had a traditional Zoroastrian funeral service; many people had no idea he belonged to that group. I honestly think many fans assumed he was from a southern European background - because of his stage name I thought he might have been Greek-British, like George Michael or Cat Stevens.24.28.186.200 04:52, 19

Arun July 9, 2005 04:33 (UTC)

It is true that Parsis are ultimately of Persian origin, but one thing must be remembered, they left Persia some 1000+ years ago. In the more than 1000 years they have been in India, they have absorbed Indian culture to a full extent with the exception of religion. Indeed, other than for their Zoroastrian religion, there is little if anything really culturally "Persian" left in the Parsis. Even their mother tongue is a dialect of Gujarati, not Persian. And while they do undoubtedly have ties to Ancient,pre-Islamic Persia, they have absolutely nothing to do with modern Persian culture as that in part dervies from the Islamic culture which the Parsis fled.Calling one Persian nowadays identifies him/her with the Modern Iranian Persian culture of Iran. And Freddie Mercury was not from Islamic Iran. Calling Freddie Mercury Persian would be the same as calling Steven Spielberg Israelite Hebrew even though his remote ancestors left Palestine some 2000 years ago; his ties end with his Jewish faith, in ethnic and cultural terms, he is an American.He cannot be identified with modern Israeli culture. Neither can we do the same for a Gypsy, even though his ancestors left India around the same time the Parsis'left Iran. Mercury's Iranian heritage ends with Zoroastrianism and the Persia up to the end of the Sassanian empire. After that,his ancestors adopted Indian culture and became an Indian people of Zoroastrian Persian background, with nothing but their faith to tie them to their former homeland. Therefore, Freddie Mercury is ethnically an Indian Parsi who grew up and lived in Zanzibar, India and the UK. He can be identified with these places but not with Iran. And even if the argument that calling him an Indian underplays his Iranian heritage is true, this would also apply to other Parsis like Zubin Mehta, Dadabhai Naoroji, JRD Tata, Madame Bhikaji Cama etc. And I doubt many Iranians are going to want to list these people as ethnic modern Persians.These people were Indians to the T. I am not denying the Persian origin of the Parsis. I am simply saying that their origin is too far off and their cutural evolution in India over the past 1000 years is too much for one to classify them as Iranian/Persians. And, if one wants Mercury's personal definition of himself, it would probably be more that of British than anything else. If he did make some claims pertaining to Iranian pride,it was probably more to cover up his Indian past rather than of any real pride. And,to tie up my argument, his last name, "Bulsara" is not Persian/Iranian, its purely Indian. [[ Afghan Historian 21:18, 9 January 2006 (UTC)]](sorry for not mentioning my name earlier.

Guys, no offense. But as a parsi myself, I attest to the fact that Freddie Mercury ( real name Farrokh Bulsara) was a 100 % Indian. Parsis are Indian period case closed.

Simple, Iranians are a much broader term which includes Shiite moslims, Bahai's, Zorastrians ( descendents of modern day Parsees). Parsee in India however, have ofcourse migrated from Iran, but more than 70% of them have intemingled with the mainland Indians at some point. Besides, they have adopted the Indian language of Gujurathi. Evidence of Freddie's surname i.e. Bulsara itself is an indicator. Bulsar is a town north of Mumbai ( Bombay) Gujurath. To consider Indian Parsis as Persians or Iranians ( one and the same) is as dumb as calling the Protestant hugenots of Britain as French !

P.S For that matter many English should call themselves Norweigns because centuries back, the Nordic invaders of the North fought the Saxons making the Normans as English as others there.

-Guys, I've done a lot more reading and I'm about to concede that yes, Mercury can be considered of Persian/Iranian descent. Lets not argue about it anymore. -User: Afghan Historian

Could you give us any references? Books, links etc. --Candyfloss 21:28, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Will someone stop calling Mercury Persian. He was an Indian Parsi, which isnt necessarily the same.

I may be mistaken, but I believe Parsees are more likely to identify as culturally and ethnically Iranian than Indian. by 81.134.132.242

Parsees from India also have Iranian ancestry but in the hundreds of years they have been in India, they have married outside their community. 152.78.254.131 2 July 2005 01:35 (UTC)

I am not going to revert the changes by 81.134.132.242 again as it is not important to the article. But I disagree with 81.134.132.242. Although Indo-Iranian people are linguistically and anthropologically related to the Caucasian race, very rarely does one see an Iranian or North Indian as white. So, I think Freddie Mercury can't be classified as white. 152.78.254.131 2 July 2005 17:38 (UTC)

[Edit for above and below.] It may be true that skin color and ethnicity are two different things. However, the user above stated that judging from his skin color, it can be determined that he most likely is not of Iranian or Indian descent. Indian, agreed. On the other hand, Persians are light skinned depending on the region. Dont forget that the word aryan derives from arya which is also what Iran derives from.

The text never even mentioned anything about his skin color, "white" or otherwise, it just talked about his ethnicity. Although i'll admit his skin being quite light colored may have led to confusion as to his Indo-Iranian heritage among Europeans, that wasn't mentioned in the article at all. Don't confuse skin color with ethnicity.

As to the whole Parsee/Indian thing, the issue seems to be a lot more complex than just saying "he was Indian". If the Parsee population is "assimilated", why is it many still practice Zoroastrianism and not Hinduism, or even Islam? Why was Freddy Mercury himself given a Zoroastrian funeral? It seems like there's more to it than simply saying that the Parsee are "Indian" - and Freddy Mercury's case complicates it even further. For example, he was born in Zanzibar, so he could also be said to be "Zanzibarian" (not sure if that's the right adjective, but you get the point). Of course Zanzibar was also under British control at the time, which makes him British as well. So he was Indian, Zanzibarian, and British. I think it's perfectly sensible to also recognize, on top of this, that he was of Parsee descent, which are a community in India that are ultimately culturally and ethnically Iranian, and not Indian, in origin. Simply calling him "Indian" is just far too vague, and the denying of the Iranian heritage he had is likely to also confuse readers. --81.134.132.242 2 July 2005 19:00 (UTC)

Well, i equated being caucasian as being white. Yeah, i guess calling Freddie Mercury simply "Indian" underplays his Iranian heritage. But Freddie Mercury can't be called Iranian because if, for example, he had a grandparent who was Indian, that makes him 1/4rth Indian and 3/4rth Iranian. The only way to confirm this is to trace his lineage. It's hard to believe that the Parsees who emigrated to India in the 8th century don't have any Indian blood. There are examples of the so called "assimilation". check out John Abraham for one. 152.78.254.131 2 July 2005 21:26 (UTC)

Irani is commonly used as a synonym for Parsi in India, and is a relatively common Parsi surname in India. Parsee (or Parsi) itself signifies that he is of Iranian descent, with ancestors practicing the Zoroastrianism. Use of Persian for a Parsee would be like calling an American whose ancestors immigrated on the Mayflower an Englishman, unless said Parsi had relatively recent Persian ancestry. I've changed it to read that he was born to Parsi (Zoroastrian) parents from India.

-But he never spoke Persian! Nor did he follow Iranian culture other than Zoroastrianism. Parsis, aside from race and religion, are culturally, nationally and linguistically Indian.

-I read Taraporevala's book on Parsis and it seems from the interview with Mercury's mother, they considered themselves to be Indian Parsis. Calling them Persians is a bit too simplistic as Parsis have a separate history and identity from other Persians. I know this from some Parsis I know.(My next-door neighbor happens to be an Indian Parsi.)

I removed following sentence:

Despite the fact that he had attained success as an ethnic minority, Mercury was often very elusive about his background. Although Parsis are technically an Indian ethnic group, Mercury claimed instead to have been of Persian descent.

It is arguably true that he is of Persian descent and might have his own reasons to discount his Indian birth/distance himself form other Indians. I would think it is POV to describe this as elusive Refdoc 07:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Some people do not like the fact that this point is brought up under the "legacy" portion of the article. But I think that it is an important part of his legacy, so I put it back up there. Let's face it, there are not many Indian rock stars!

Um, what are you guy's talking about? How about we go by what Freddy Mercury has said himself, THAT HE IS AN IRANIAN!!! His parents believe it or not, were born in India, but they are Iranian, and they can speak Iranian like Freddy himself can! I actually remember seeing an Iranian interview with him, when I was younger. I have changed some things from Indian Parsi, into Persian, or Iranian.

-He said he was Persian, not Iranian. And, he rarely talked about ethnicity to begin with. He was of Persian descent, as all other Parsis like JRD Tata and Sam Manekshaw are acknowledged as on wikipedia. But he wasn't Persian or Iranian. As an Indian Parsi of Persian/Iranian descent, he had a culture distinct from other Persians, an Indian/Persian culture that he abandoned to become famous in western society. Like other Parsis on wikipedia, we must acknowledge him as Indian Zoroastrian of Persian ancestry. He was of Persian ancestry, not a full Persian himself, as he said. I think you are really misinformed or are lying when saying he gave an Iranian interview. He never performed in Iran. His parents never spoke Farsi either. Give a source for that please. Much of your information sounds false. I do agree though, that, as a Parsi, he had Persian roots. -User: Afghan Historian

It doesn't matter what other parsees (parsis) think about their nationality, or whether statistically speaking majority of them consider themselves Persian, Indian or Iranian or just Parsees. The fact is that Freddie considered himself to be Persian, he indicated that he was Persian and that he was proud of his Persian origins, so did his parents. I don't understand why it's so hard for you guys to accept that he considered himself Persian not Indian!! I think the best approach is to call him Persian (Parsi) but he definitely is not an Indian because he didn't consider himself to be Indian! (despite what his birth certificate might say) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.181.52.105 (talk • contribs) .

-This argument is bull because if we should label him the way he considered himself to be, than we should label Merle Oberon as Tasmanian because she claimed and considered herself Tasmanian. But she wasnt. Neither was Freddie an actual Persian. We should record facts, not opinions, and the FACT is: he was an Indian Parsi of Persian origins. He never talked about ethnicity much and considered himself British, not Persian. He rubbed the BRITISH FLAG over his body, not the IRANIAN OR INDIAN FLAGS. He may have made a few claims to Persian to hide his Indian background, which is probably true considering how rarely he spoke about ethnicity to begin with anyway and the Bulsaras initially difficult adjustment to British life after their arrival(I got this from the article below). Most people who are fans of Queen will tell you that they think of Mercury as a White British guy because that is what he passed himself of as, not a Persian or an Indian, a white Briton only! Also, stop this myth that his parents saw themselves as Persian Iranians. I dont know where this comes from. From the interviews they gave, they seem to consider themselves Indian Parsis. The parsis on this page also make the argument for him to be an Indian of Persian origins. Overall, we should record the fact, he was a British singer of Indian Parsi heritage. He considered himself British most if not all the time during his stardom. He is more a part of Britains legacy than anything and probably Zanzibar and India as he was born and grew up in those places (as stated repeatedly before). He never performed in Zanzibar or India or even Iran during the liberated Shah's time (for someone supposedly so proud of Persian origins with an opportuinity to perform in an area with a liberal regime). The least acknowledgement of his ethnic past was a performance for Live Aid and African poverty as well as a small donation to his old Indian boarding school. He never did anything that small or even smaller than that for Iran or anything Iran-related. He was of Persian origins but thats just it apart of Zoroastrianism, which doesnt count as religion is not a factor for being a South Asian. He grew up in both India and the Zanzibari Indian community. His friends and family in these areas were all Indians, Parsi and non-Parsi alike. He never spoke Farsi or Dari either. He spoke English and maybe Hindi or Gujarati. He was a BRITISH SINGER OF INDIAN PARSI HERITAGE! CASE CLOSED! Sorry for repeating myself, but the information repeated is sooo necessary for back up of the argument —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.41.240.68 (talk • contribs) .

No offence but your argument is not at all coherent! I don't know what Merle Oberon has got to do with this. Talking about Freddie Mercury, he was orignally Persian, both his parents were Persians. He was born in Inida but clearly didn't consider himself an Indian. The fact that he didn't "rub the Iranian flag over his body" is also irrelavant. Rubbing a flag over your body can be seen as a political move to support the government of a country, I can assure you that you won't be able to find many Iranian born Iranians who are prepared to rub their own flag over their body!! How do you know he did not speak Farsi or Dari? The story line behind some of his songs are following a Persian theme and he uses non-English non-Indian words in some of his lyrics too, which could indicate that he knew how to speak Persian too. Anyhow, he was originally Persian (immigrating to India or being born in India does not make one Indian, esp when they clearly consider themselves otherwise). I don't know if he was ashamed of being born in India (as you say) or what but whatever the reason he prefered to consider himself Persian and he had enough grounds to do so...we should respect that and stop calling him Indian. That's why I said calling him "Persian (Parsi)" is a good way of putting an end to this discussion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.36.179.65 (talk • contribs) .

As a Parsi who was not born in India, I can understand why Freddy Mercury would say he was Persian not Indian. It has absolutely nothing to do with being ashamed of being an Indian. I dont know why anyone would be ashamed, its just another country isnt it?? The reason he would claim to be Persian is the same reason i do at times: Most people DO NOT KNOW who or what Parsis are and it's usually a 20 minute discussion to sort out the facts. Parsis are Persian. The muslim populous that inhabits Iran today are known as Iranians. Ask an Iranian if he considers zoroastrians the same as him, and he will say we all have the same blood. (Ive done this so i would know) Im not denying an Indian heritage - the country saved our faith from almost certain extinction. However, if you read up on it, youll find that it was the Indian ruler at the time of our migration to Indian, who insisted on Parsis being separate, not being allowed to marry into the indian public and mix blood. As a result of living in India for so many years, yes, we adopted the language and the sari, but our prayers, our faith and our community is unlike anything resembling present day indian religion. We are still considered a minority in India and beleive it or not, not all Indians know who parsis are. (again from personal experience) As for Parsis having the same 'blood' as Indians, its important to note that marrying out of the parsi fold in India is very much discouraged and children of mixed marriages are not considered Zoroastrian. They are not allowed into the temples or allowed Persian burial rites either. As for Freddy Mercury, the man was obviously a beleiver in his faith, because he was buried according to our Parsi rights. Seeing as how the man has passed on, I suggest that we leave him be, because disecting his ethnicity isnt going to tell you anything about who he was as a person. How about we just honour what the man said about himself? Parsis have names like Bulsara (for the town Bulsar, where his family is from) because indians and the British occupying India had a hard time with the persian names we probably came with. Thats why we have surnames like Carpenter and Doctor. They represent the professions our families were proponents of. And for the record, Parsi means 'From Pars.' (PARS is in Persia.) - Natasha Chinoy.

-Afghan Historian here. I thought we agreed that he would be labeled as Indian Parsi (Persian) so that both sides of his heritage are recognized. Someone keeps changing it to either Persian or Indian Zoroastrian (Parsi). Since many people on here have a problem with calling him Indian, even Indian Parsi, I changed it to read Persian or Persian Zoroastrian to see if everyone was satisfied. But soon after, it's changed back into Indian Parsi. Let's just stick with my original arrangement. And, as this is an encyclopedia, we must acknowledge that he was an Indian, despite what he claimed. Wikipedia records facts, not opinions. We cant just erase the fact that he and his ancestors were part of India for 1400 years, even though they are of Persian origin. Also, the extreme secrecy that Mercury kept, regarding his pre-British life while he was still alive and famous often leads me to conclude that his claims to Persian pride were not really sincere but just ways to hide the past he didnt like to talk about. I cant help concluding this. I try to be a bit more open to the possibility that he was proud but the entire scenario just does not permit it as so, as well as the attitude of his mother and sister in the interview with Taraporevala. I dont know why but the whole situation of his history leads me to this conclusion, as well as his ever-strong hunger for fame and popularity. Anyway, lets stick with the term that addresses best what he was, Indian Parsi (Persian). This way, both his Indian background and his ultimate Persian origin and possible pride in such origin are recognized, with none downplaying the other. -[[Afghan Historian 17:00, 20 February 2006 (UTC)]]

-I found a link talking about the racial abuse that Freddie initially went through before he blended in and became who he became. http://www.netmemorials.co.uk/Freddie%20Mercury.htm. This should be helpful. If anyone trusts this, then we can come closer to deciding whether he was downplaying Indian heritage or not.

-Well, I think I'm going to conclude this debate once and for all. I read a very genetic history link for Southwest, Southern and Central Asian populations. A study of Parsis show that while in terms of y chromosome they are Iranian, in terms of MtDNA, they are like other Gujaratis, showing that a predominantly male Persian population arrived in Gujarat some 1300 years ago and mixed with local women at first and then took up endogamy, in contrast to what legend tells us. I guess than that even genealogically, Freddie Mercury cant be Persian as it isnt full. The best thing to say is that he was a Parsi or Indian Parsi, or whatever. But Persian just seems a bit...really stretch. He's of Persian descent, of course, but not Persian. He speaks no Iranian language, he came from an Indian Zoroastrian culture and he isnt even genealogically pure, especially if his mtDNA is almost completely Indian. Also, his jaw structure looks pretty Indian, even South Indian. I come partly from an Iranian people, the Pashtuns and I havent seen any one among them with that kind of a mouth, not even among the Iranian Persians I know. Basic point, he's a British singer of Indian Parsi backgroun who wasnt open about himself to too many people and probably was comfortable being a white Brit anyway. Lets leave it at that. I mean, come on, as Natasha said so wisely, debating about his race isnt goint to tell us one BLOODY thing about what he was as a person. He was a damn great singer would be my first response if you asked me about him, not "is he Indian or Iranian". --User: Afghan Historian

I've seen many Iranians with similar mouth structure, esp among the Zoroastrian community in Iran. Beside, since when mouth structure has been the basis for determining one's origin? Mercury himself said he was Persian, and he had enough reasons to say so. I don't see why others can't agree with the guy himself on his origins! wasn't he better qualified to say where he is from than us? He was Persian and he wanted to be regarded as such, if you want to stretch it, we can also call him Parsi (which has Indian embedded in it). So, Persian|Parsi, is prob the best way of referring to him, in terms of origins.

Did it ever occur to you that Parsis generally have pride in Persian origins at the same time when considering themselves Indian? This is a common Parsi feeling, and if Freddie did make a claim to being "Persian", he was doing what other Parsis do. Also, his own parents call him an Indian, his own sister, (who knows him better than you or I) said he was an Indian Parsi. (You should definetely read his definitive biography, which, unfortunately, is published only in England. It is the one authorized by his family and contains, in both their and his friends minds, the truth about his life and background.) His childhood Parsi friends identify him as Indian and differentiate between Parsis and Persians. If you want to go from a genealogical identification, you could call Freddie a Persian. But, when people are called literally "Persians", they mean they are Iranians, not Tajiks or Parsis or Dari-speaking Afghans, especially in modern times. We should call him Indian Parsi, as the term "Parsi" signifies that he is an Indian Persian, as opposed to an Iranian one. Calling him literally a Persian Parsi is redundant, if not misleading. And really, for all this stuff about his wanting to identify with Persia, let me remind you that he considered himself "British", not "Indian", "Parsi", "Iranian" or "Persian". He was known as a strong supporter of the British monarchy and was often "happy to death" whenever he got British national awards. If he truly had any feelings for Iran, why didnt he ever go perform in Iran before the fall of the Shah? Why could he not speak a word of Persian? Sorry but "Bismillah" does not count. Also, I listened to some of these other songs that apparently have "Persian" embedded all over them, like the "The Prophet's Song" and I read and heard that they are about Noah and the Flood, not Zoroaster or some Iranian topic! Also, a lot of the eastern sounding influences on A Night at the Opera, have been officially proven to come from influences from Lata Mangeshkar, an Indian singer. The Arabic words he sang at the begining of one song, have also been proven to come from his background in Arabic Zanzibar, as well as "Bismillah". The point is, he is an Indian Parsi (genetics prove that Parsis do have considerable South Asian ancestry) who was not open about himself and would go to great lengths to keep his background a secret. He considered himself a White Briton and revelled in it. We, as encyclopedians, can only record the facts, not opinions, so we should label him what he best can be described as, "Indian Parsi" who later became British. End of story. I dont think even Freddie himself really cared over what people labelled him as, he would have been most happy if people called him "British" or "English" only and forgot all the oriental stuff. He was, in my mind, a great rock singer if not the best of all time, and I think it is tragic we argue so much for just two words of biographic detail. We never do this for the thousands of other Parsis who also feel proud to have Persian origins. -User: Afghan Historian

Ok, that's a long paragraph there - most of which have already been addressed and debated in this section (read the section for more info). However, I will re-iterate three main points:

1. Yes, it did in fact occurred to me that Parsis (most of them including Freddie) are proud of being Persians...Now, Parsis are Persians who moved to India. There is a Province in Iran, called Fars. Many years ago it was called Pars, and people from there might also call themselves Fars. But as far as Parsi goes, when someone says "Parsi", they are referring to Persians who've moved to India. So Parsi has Indian in there, calling someone an Indian Parsi is redundant because by saying Parsi you are already saying that they are from India. Calling him Persian (Parsi) however says that he is originally Persian but belongs to the Parsi group of Persians, so although this might be somewhat redundant too but it's still better than Indian Parsi (cuz there is no other recognizable Parsi group).

2. Calling oneself Persian and being proud of one's Persian heritage, does not obligate nor requires the person to associate themselves with the Iranian government/regime (Neither before nor after Shah). I will refer to myself as Persian too, but I do not support the regime (neither the current nor the previous one) ... so saying that Freddie was not talking about Iranian regime is irrelevant, many Iranian born Iranians do not identify themselves with the Iran's regime (and that goes for both Shah and his successors).

3. I think it's tragic to be debating this too, but the fact is he regarded himself as Persian and he was Parsi. So calling him Persian|Parsi would both respects his national legacy (as in his birth certificate and family origin) and his heritage (how **he** liked to be regarded).

This is somewhat irrelevant, but how do you know for sure that he couldn't speak Persian? About Noah, did you know that Noah's ship came down in Ararat, which is located in North-West of modern-day Iran (bordering Turkey)? So, although this doesn't change anything, just for the record know that Ararat and Noah are somewhat related to Persians too!!

Regardless of the connection, Queen did not have Persia or Persian culture in mind when they wrote the song. And the point is Parsis in general see themselves as Persians or of Persian descent in addition to being Indians. We acknowledge them as Indian Parsis with the word "Parsi" signifying Persian living in India and the ethnicity they like to be called. Persian is in the Parsi so no need to say it. And, at this time, Pakistan was coming into existance so there were plenty of Pakistani Parsis as well. Indian Parsi is to distinguish him from the Pakistani branch. Parsis are known for a fact not to use Persian as their mother tongue or in any other capacity. They use Avestan as their liturgical, not Persian. Freddie, if he did speak anything eastern, would have spoken Gujarati or Hindi. Not Persian. His own parents acknowledge their mother tongue as Gujarati so theres how I know. And you misunderstood what I was trying to say, he considered himself British above anything else. The awards were just an example. Most people who know about Queen know that he portrayed himself as British or "white" to his fans and the public. He never even went to perform in Iran when the liberal Shah was there. And at this time, he was performing in Japan and South Africa and other non-Western countries. Never in India or Iran. For someone "proud of being Persian" he sure had little consideration for his "fellow Iranian fans". Also, he told people his name was Frederick, not even the Persian Farrokh. Also, Parsis have mixed with Indians quite frequently as their MtDNA shows (look at Parsi article). They're very much Indian and not Iranian, in modern context. I dont think I will say any more as I think I've said all that needs to be said. I'm also guessing you're Persian/Iranian. Not trying to be offensive or anything. -Afghan Historian 20:04, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Japanese Legacy

I took out the Japanese legacy part, since it did not seem very tightly written. To me, the rest of the article read very well, until you got to that part. However, right after I took it out, it was put back in within minutes. So I guess that some people find this interesting. I wonder about what other people think.

• Considering how supremely popular Queen were in Japan, I think it is notable to mention Mercury's "legacy" there. - TIM

• This whole section is redundant. It's just a list of all the Japanese cartoons that have a Queen reference. Really, it only deserves a mention in the trivia section, not a huge section.

Katamari Damacy

The "King of all Cosmos" form the video game Katamari Damacy (or Damashii) is modeled on Freddie Mercury, including costumes.

Images

Who keeps stealing the images? I mean, every couple of months the latest photo gets stolen and then someone has to replace it with another one. Does anyone know what is going on here?

The new images are great, but, golly, they need to be spread out over the length of the article. Bunched up near the top is unattractive! Anyone want to tackle it? I'm assuming the copyright status on the images is kosher. — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:03, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't necessarily assume that, my friend. I'm suspicious of any images readily found by a google search and uploaded by inactive accounts. Maybe I'm too suspicious, though. ~~Shiri — Talk~~ 04:51, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

No, you're not. Copyrighted images is one of Wikipedia's biggest problems. It's easy to find dozens a day. I just didn't want to open that can of worms. :-S — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:52, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

compare with German Version

I am just coming from the German version of this article, which was kind of short. But I am suprised, how many differences in dates and names one can find in those two versions. It may be interesting to verify some facts. E.g. the German article on Freddy states, he himself mentioned the second name Pluto as a joke to a journalist, who did not understand the joke and took it for real. Further more, it says he was 17 upon arriving at London. Small facts, but still facts!?

---

Edit war heating up

I see an edit war starting on this article. SAMAS keeps making changes that keep getting reverted (for good reason, they are poorly worded and remove a great deal of information). If I were an admin, I'd revert his edits and protect the article until we get this resolved. Instead, I'll just have to hope that we can discuss this like civilized wikipedians, here. The points:

1. SAMAS removed most of the first paragraph and summarized it. He also included a number of typos. Why? What is wrong with the detailed information?
2. SAMAS added "the Street Fighter character Eagle was reimagined as a tribute to Mercury for Capcom vs. SNK 2." but it was removed by Protohiro.

Personally, I see no justification for #1, but #2 seems a fine addition if it is indeed true. If it isn't, it should be left out.

Let's discuss things here before we get into a fisticuff. SAMAS, do you care to provide justification for your edits? — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:57, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that SAMAS' first edits seem really pointless (clearly, because I revertec it). The video game issue sounded fishy to me and not terribly notable. But I am not an expert on Freddie Mercury protohiro 17:33, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I never edited any previous paragraph(Either I'm being confused with someone else's edits, or it was unintentional), only added the information about the fighting game characters. I apologize for the typos, though. My mind moves faster than my fingers, and they tend to skip ahead to catch up.

I will admit that the video game references aren't groundbreaking or anything, but I figured they were intresting enough to be mentioned. Sol's similarities are rediculously extensive, and mentioned in the Guilty Gear section.

I certianly didn't mean to start an edit war over it.SAMAS 11:23, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Iranian ancestry

Have people lost their minds here or what? Nobody is saying or even suggesting that Parsis are not of the Indian nationality - but they are certainly of Iranian ancestry. Exactly what is the problem here? Is there a misunderstanding of certain words? If so, please consult a dictionary and look up the words ancestry and descent and lineage. For heavens sake. SouthernComfort 11:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Sunday London Times discussion of Asian background

THE GREAT PRETENDER (11/1996 Sunday London Times article)

Freddie Mercury, lead singer of British rock group QUEEN, who died of AIDS in 1991, hid his Asian past. Turned out immaculately in a loose-fitting sudreh - a shirt of white muslin symbolising his innocence and purity - the proud eight-year-old boy appeared indistinguishable from dozens of young Parsee Indians undergoing their initiation into the Zoroastrian faith. With rice grains and rose petals flecking his neatly clipped hair, little Farok Bulsara left the traditional Navjote ceremony to smiles from his parents, Bomi and Jer, and returned to his boarding school where he was already being groomed from a privileged colonial adulthood. That was never to be, but another infinitely greater elite awaited young Farok. As Freddie Mercury, the brilliant singer of the rock band Queen, he became one of the world's pop icons. But few of the millions of fans who mourned his death in November 1991 could have had any idea that he was, in fact, Asia's first rock superstar.

So why did Mercury, who might have become a respected and high-profile spokesman for the new generation of integrated British Asians, so ruthlessly deny his roots? And why only now - five years after he died of AIDS-related illness - are those roots being publicity exposed in a collection of previously unseen photographs recently exhibited in London? To discover the answer we must start with his childhood. His father, Bomi, a middle-ranking cashier at the High Court in the then British-controlled East African island of Zanzibar where Farok was born at the Government Hospital on September, 5 1946, hoped his son might become a doctor, lawyer or perhaps even an airline pilot, a profession to which the Parsees increasingly gravitated. His mother, Jer, who relished the cocktail party lifestyle of a civil servant's wife, had similar dreams for her son. To ensure that he had the best education possible they sent him back to India, their homeland, and enrolled him at the exclusive St Peter's School in Panchgani, several hundred kilometres from Bombay in the cool hills of Maharastra.

It seemed their wishes would be fulfilled. Farok, who was seven when he arrived at the school, was a bright pupil and he prospered, though, inevitably, he was nicknamed "Bucktooth" by his fellow pupils. At the age of eight he met his maternal aunt Sheroo Khory when she visited him at the school. Sheroo now 74, says: "I remember him with great affection. Even before I got to the gate, he saw me and came out to greet me. Then he showed me round with great enthusiasm. He was fond of school and made friends easily." Mohammadi Dholkawala, one of Farok's classmates, remembers how the boy topped the class in most subjects in the six years he was at St Peters. Yet it was not only in academic work that Mercury found his metier, Sheroo says: "Farok bagged so many prizes at school. He was an all-round junior champion. He excelled at everything - boxing, fencing, table tennis, you name it. He was also a very talented artist."

But it was his talent for music which really startled her. Once, while Farok's parents were visiting, his mother began playing the piano and he copied it right away. "He was so small that he had to turn the stool up on its end to reach the keys," says Mrs Khory. "Then he began the tune that his mother had just played. I asked him who taught him and he replied that he'd heard mummy playing it. "Then another time he was listening to the radio. It was Indian music and when it was over he played the same tune. Still, we didn't believe he could do it right off like that. We thought someone must be teaching him.

"But he did once more and we realised he had real talent. That's when his parents arranged for him have special music lessons at school. He must have been about nine or ten." By his mid-teens, there was only one slight concern. Though still neatly groomed, and with his black hair clipped respectfully short, young Farok Bulsara was among a small group of pupils who had cottoned on to a disturbing new import from Western society: rock'n'roll. Supplementing their shirts with bootlace ties and sporting dark sunglasses, the boys had even gone as far as forming the school's first pop group, daringly named The Hectics after Farok's flamboyant piano playing style. About this time his excellent academic record began to falter.

Although the boys were never allowed to perform outside school, Nariman Khory recalls what was probably Farok's first public performance when the family went for dinner and the band at an Italian restaurant struck up How Much Is That Doggy In The Window. Aware that Farok was humming along, a member of the band asked him to join in and he took to the stage and sang. "After the song he was all flushed and shy, but while he was on the stage you could see that he had presence, even at that age," says Nariman.

Some 15 years later, the boy's name having been changed to Freddie Mercury and the piano switched for a twirling microphone stand, his showmanship was to become the trademark of the world's most successful glam-rock band, Queen. By then all traces of India had been removed. Though his aquiline nose, flinty eyes and deep olive complexion gave him a Latino or vaguely Oriental look, few of his many millions of fans ever guessed they were hero-worshipping the first Asian pop star.

Mercury was certainly not about to alert them to the fact. In the few personal interviews that he granted, he deliberately obscured his past, divulging only that hailed from Zanzibar. Some biographers even referred to him as Persian - which, since the Parsees resettled in the Bombay region around the ninth century and consider themselves Indian, is stretching the truth. What brought Mercury to Europe was changing face of African politics. Fearful that their comfortable position might be jeopardised by Zanzibar's independence, Bomi and Jer joined thousands of Asian families seeking a secure future in prosperous Britain. Along with 17-year old Farok and his sister Kashmira, 10 they packed their belongings and arrived in decidedly unexotic Feltham, a London dormitory town under the Heathrow flight-path.

As they moved into Gladstone Avenue, a dreary cul-de-sac of 1930's semi-detached houses, residents peeping through their frilly net curtains at the area's first influx of Asian immigrants raised eyebrows at Jer's traditional sari. The unfamiliar scent of spices wafting from the kitchen window further aroused their suspicion. If their neighbours found themselves lapsing into prejudice, their fears were soon allayed.Within a month, recalls Derick Burgess, who lived nearby, the Bulsaras looked every inch the English family.

The Bulsaras maintained links with the Parsee community. During holidays from Marks & Spencer's Hounslow branch, where she rose to supervisor, Jer returned with Bomi -who worked for an airline-to visit Freddie's grandfather, a respected priest in their home town of Bulsar on the Gujarati coast. Freddie, who had changed his name while still in India, rarely accompanied them. Reshaping his hair, first into Jimi Hendrix-like bush and later into the long-back, feathered-top cut that epitomised the 70's, he turned his back on his upbringing. After he left Ealing College of Arts and his pop career began to take off, Bulsar, Bombay and the Parsees were never mentioned.

As his reputation grew, Mercury became more and more secretive. He instructed Bomi and Jer never to speak about his past, and they still respect his wishes today. Visitors are politely turned away from the affluent Nottingham suburb of Mapperley, where 88-year old Mr Bulsara and his wife, who is about 10 years younger, moved into a newly built bungalow to be close to Kashmira and her family earlier this year. Burgess, a regular guest during the Gladstone Ave days, says Freddie was equally coy about his sexuality. He would arrive in his Rolls Royce with his female companion of many years, Mary Austin, but never with his boyfriend, Jim Hutton. Whatever his fans would have made of his gay Indian background is, in any case, of no concern to Mr and Mrs Bulsara. To his doting parents he was, and remains, a brilliant and beloved son. As Jer Bulsara wistfully said, while providing the captions for the photographs on exhibition: "This was our baby."

"Show preview" button

"67.161.159.218", please could you use the "Show preview" button. Thank You. --Candyfloss 22:46, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

"Ethnic origins" section/sources

http://www.brianmay.com/brian/brianssb/brianssbaug04.html

Brian May, Thu 26 Aug 2004:

QUEEN IN IRAN - STOP THE PRESS !!! (REALLY!)

Amazing isn't it, how far "news" can travel, and amazing how no-one checks its source. The story about "Queen being the first official release in Iran" has actually hit news media all around the world. But it appears that the original story was wrong, and all the journalist channels just copied it without checking. How very crap of them. It really shows how little you can trust what you read in the papers.

The truth ? The word I hear from EMI Arabia is that they are TRYING to clear a Queen compilation with the Iranian authorities, but so far have not succeeded. So this "First" is clearly a pirate - a bootleg. How funny. Must get one!! ha ha!

Cheers Bri --Candyfloss 22:46, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the following sources from the article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3593532.stm
http://www.gmax.co.za/feel04/08/29-freddiemecury.html --Candyfloss 21:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

POV?

Some sections seem to suffer from POV issues. Deckiller 00:23, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Naturally. All articles about pop stars are like that. It's very hard to write objectively. You could help us out by identifying the sections and suggesting ways to improve them. Or introduce new information to the article which will even up the bias. My introduction is fairly biased, but I'm not sure what I would add to even it up. Stevage 22:42, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Linking to talk pages within articles

It would be much appreciated if people would stop adding links to talk pages. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia - please treat it like one. SouthernComfort 01:36, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Final Say on Ethnicity

-Most Parsis on Wikipedia are listed as Indian Parsi parentheses Persian. I've decided to do this for both Zubin Mehta and Freddie Mercury. That way both their Indian background/culture and their ultimate Persian origins are recognized (even though this can also be taken care of by the word Parsi, which is the original form of Farsi before the arrival of Islam and the Arabs. -User: Afghan Historian

Lucky Bastard

You know what, after listening to some of Queen today and thinking about the ethnicity debate (which I was never aware about till a year ago) I realized what a lucky bastard Freddie Mercury was!!! I dont think there are that many Indians or Pakistanies who become that famous in the western music industry and are taken for white all the time and their Asian heritage completely vague and almost unknown. Despite his rare claims to Persianness, the average fan and expert of Queen think of him as a regular white British guy!! Very few know of him as an Indian Parsi or a Persian from his claims. Most Indians in his time would never get that far in popular culture and would have been derided as darkies or "Pakis". And, unlike Mercury, most Indians do not have a full racial ancestry to somewhere else from 1200 years ago to fall back upon when under ethnic suspect. Mercury did. After all, Farrokh is a common Persian/Iranian name and Bulsara was not a common Indian name in western understanding so many took it for a rare Persian name (the many who heard his vague ethnicity claims). He could also pass for Iranian, without suspect of foreigness as well as white. Maybe some saw his "darkness" but presumed that he was southern European or something, maybe even Welsh (who are quite dark). I find it ironic that a Parsi like Mercury could pass as and be considered White for the average man in Britain and the West when only a few generations prior, Parsis like Dadabhai Naoroji or Shapurji Saklatvala were derided as "blacks" (even though Naoroji looked just like the typical full Anglo-Saxon English gentleman, spectacles, white beard and all). I dont think I could do the same thing. Afghan ancestry is still pretty exotic and foreign enough for many to call me a dark muscian, if I became one in popular culture. Does anyone agree, though, that the man was too lucky to fall under ethnic suspicion at his career height? -User: Afghan Historian

Biographic Sketch

Someone's erased the biographic sketch! Put it back on.

Proud Of Being English

-Whovr edited the legacy section to read he was more proud of being English is absolutely right! Despite few claims to being proud of Persian ancestry(which, as an Indian Parsi, he had) he always felt British at heart. He never showed any true regard for the East whatsoerver, be it his old homelands of India and Zanzibar, or the land of his ancient far off ancestors, Persia/Iran. -Cyrus

Asiatic features

-I disagree that Mercury never showed a trace of Asiatic features. If you look at him carefully, you can easily notice distinct features born by South Asian or Middle Eastern people such as dark eyes, the Parsi peaked nose and black Hair. He also had quite a tan if you put him with other white people. Also, if you ever carefully watch some of his stage show recordings, you will notice a faint streak of gaudiness typical of Bollywood movies. The last remanants of his Indian past, one could say. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.221.1.181 (talk • contribs) .

Gaudiness has nothing to do with being Indian or being exposed to Bollywood. He was a stage performer and they have to put on a show. People this ignorant shouldn't be allowed to post their opinions online. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.212.76.4 (talk • contribs) .

Please refrain from personal attacks. Thanks. Hbackman 07:25, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

-You up there. I did not say Gaudiness was Indian, there was a form of Indian gaudiness very discreet in his shows. This is a quote from Salman Rushdie, though, not mine. Be a bit more careful when you read please! And I dont know why people are so out of shape of calling him Indian Parsi. No mattere what he felt, that is what he was before becoming a Briton.

Vocal Abilities

Hello,

In all your respect, I believe that the article is somewhat overestimating Freddy Mercury's vocal abilities. In no way did Freddy Mercury every hav an operatic style of voice. An operatic style of voice is completely different to that of Freddy Mercury, the only two singers in rock with this type of voice were Tenors Messiah Marcolin and Michael Kiske from Candlmass and Helloween, respectively. These two used a lot of vibrato, used operatic tecniques, and voice fermattas of more than 20 seconds that would dwarf Freddy Mercury's vocal style in a heartbeat. Besides, if Freddy would have had an operatic style he wouldn't have developed vocal nodules, these develop from abuse, lack of warmingup and yelling too much. The two singers I mentioned never yelled and always maintained an excellent, tone range and operatic style in their respective ranges, unlike Freddy Mercury.

As a second note, I would like to point out that the article implies that Mercury is amongst the best singers in the 20th century, of all music, which he certainly is not. The article fails to say that the poll is also topped by John Lennon, who is considerably inferior to Freddy. The Poll is based on popularity, not on actual vocal abilities and vocal quality, which is why I believe the article should be changed.

Thank You Very Much, and I wait for an answer in due time.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.135.185.175 (talk • contribs) .

I totally have to disagree with you here. In the first place, I also believe that John Lennon was a great singer. This is due not to his technical abilities, but to his distinctive style. In a lot of ways, it could even be argued that John Lennon was a vocal pioneer whose un-self-conscious style has been adopted by many recent singers. Furthermore, I understand that many music experts voted in both the BBC poll and the MTV-2 poll. For this reason, I don't see any reason for discounting either one.

On the other hand, unlike John Lennon, Freddie Mercury certainly possessed extraordinary vocal abilities. If you want an example of this, try singing along with the second verse of "Another One Bites the Dust" without using a falsetto! I dare you to try it!! Furthermore, Freddie Mercury sings this second verse while still maintaining a very masculine sound. Most tenors who could sing in this range would not have the kind of resonance that Freddie Mercury has and so would end up sounding "like a girl".

I'm not sure what you mean by the opera comparison. Obviously, comparing opera singers and popular singers is like comparing apples and oranges. I don't believe that anyone is trying to make such comparisons in this article. Futhermore, while many opera singers may possess great technical ability, they are generally neither as distinctive nor as original as many famous singers in jazz and popular music. For this reason, I do not think that it is possible to suggest that all opera singers are "better" than all non-classical singers. (TAY)

Well, first of all let me clarify something. Not because Freddy Mercury can reach high notes does it mean that he is a good singer. I am an operatic bass from a conservatory and cannot reach the notes Freddy Mercury can reach, but he cannot reach the low notes I can reach. I have no doubt I am a much better singer than Mercury, as is any opera singer. First of all, the trainning required to create an operatic voice and develop one takes years of daily trainning, it's a different type of voice. In rock singers, do not train as much as classical singers do, the voices are completely different, I would dare Freddy Mercury to attempy singing Beethoven's 9th symphony, the fifth movement, I seriously doubt he would be able to sing such areas, considering that his voice is not trained for opera, were as operatic tenors, would be able to sing the second verse of another one bites a dust without falsetto, and would do it much better than him, not screaming, but with a potent, melodic, and vibrato laiden voice. Please do not compare opera singers and rock singers, it's not like apples and oranges, it's like comparing the quality between an insecticide spraying airplane and a supersonic Jet, the difference is abismal, Opera singers are immensely superior, again due to trainning and education, so then again, Freddy Mercury has nothing of an operatic voice in him whatsoever, nothing, so please consider erasing that section from the article.

Secondly, I disagree with you in Lennon's pioneering vocal style. Lennon's vocal abilities are completely limited. Apart from that the "experts" on the poll need to be checked, because there is no way in hell John Lennon is better than Frank Sinatra or Freddy Mercury. Sinatra and Nat King Cole are infinetely superior to both of them. And as you say if the pole was not based on popularity and only on quality of voice and vocal techniques, why weren't any classical singers, and I don't mean popular classicals such as Sinatra, but fulltime operatic Tenors, Baritones or Basses from conservatories included in the lists, when it is clear that at least one should have been included. I am terribly sorry but your assertions are erroneous.

Thanks

Well, in the first place, I agree that vocal range is not everything. Obviously there are singers who can sing very high and very low notes, but who lack good tone or a distinctive style. On the other hand, I find it comical to even ponder what a male opera singer would sound like singing "Another One Bites the Dust"!! While some of them may be able to hit these notes, I don't think that anyone would want to listen to that! Let's face it, popular singers can do things that opera singers can't. The style that male opera singers use is just too rigid and stilted for popular music. Furthermore, many popular singers and jazz singers improvise and often add elements to the music that were not originally there. There is more room for creativity in popular singing than in opera. For that reason, I think that many of the greatest singers of the 20th century were in jazz and popular music. However, this also does not mean that I do not love and appreciate opera as well.

--

My 2 cents to this discussion come from not my own knowledge or experience, but from quoting a person who surely knows what she is talking about.

Her "experience" cut short: Her parents were in every way related to opera, father was a costumer and mother an opera singer. Her kindergarten was opera's back stage. Later she herself became a singing teacher.

She always compared Freddie Mercury to the 17th-18th century castrato singers. Her evaluation of Mercury's voice was that Mercury's voice is a natural castrato, his voice is like the castrato's, but without castration. That coming from a professional should surely say something. Now also keeping in mind the many low range songs Mercury has sang... well, that's quite a vocal range. :)

"Freddie liked to take it up the arse."???

Has anyone noticed the trivia section contains "Freddie liked to take it up the arse."???? Isn't this pretty much vandalism?? I don't think this is meant as anything but ...

Polaris75 21:34, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

While it could be true, this is nonetheless a form of vandalism.

Rewriting The Songwriting Section

The songwriting section has no real encyclopedic value (especially the last paragraph, but in any way, all of it is crap). I suggest to remove or rewrite it, giving attention to songwriting and production style. For instance, most of Freddie's compositions are piano-based, while "Crazy Little Thing" was clearly written on a guitar (Freddie commented on that on an interview, said he "wrote it in a bath" or something). I noticed that a lot of his piano stuff is in B flat major ("Bohemian Raphsody", "It's a Hard Life" and others). There are also Freddie's contribution to "Radio Ga Ga". Although credited to Taylor, Freddie has said on a promotional interview for "The Works" that he "turned the song inside out" while Taylor went on a skiing vacation. On the same interview he also said that "Is This The World We Created?" only featured his (Freddie's) lyrics, while the music is by Brian. And what is this crap about "mini opera"? Is there such a thing? Freddie was a brilliant progressive rock songwriter, but his skill was ignored because of his showmanship (like Jordan's defensive play). EV (IL).

Comment: Well, I agree that Freddie Mercury was a great songwriter. You could add some of these things, but the point of an encyclopedia article is also to be relatively concise as well. When sections get too long, they should be shortened. How many Wikipedia articles do you see that feature huge run-on paragraphs that as impossible to wade through. At least this section cab be easily read.

End Comment.

I cut the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. Hope nobody dissaproves. :) EV (IL)

• I added a paragraph commenting on the number of long songs he wrote that used several different styles of music (i.e. Boh Rhap, Innuendo, Liar, etc.). -TIM

Childhood picture

Found this pic. Is it genuine? Shawnc 17:21, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The pic looks like the ones i've got in a book "Freddie Mercury: A Definative Biography" but i think Kashmir Bulsara-Cooke holds the copyright over it. File:England flag large.png अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey 10:11, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Iranian or Indian

Well i find it kinda amusing some guy is bent on replacing Iranian with India. Parsis are very much an INDIAN community. They played leading role in Indian Indepenndence movement. They were exiled/expelled from 8th century Muslim Persia. Over 12 centuries they've adopted Indian culture, names and languages. As for people thumping BBC article as claim for his Iranian parentage, (whoever accused Beeb of factual correctness) Freddie had ancient connections to Persia but NOT Iran. Iran is a modern day Muslim state while Persia is an ancient culture. The term Indian Parsi in my opinion does justice to all his exotic ethnic origins. Lastly i must say in spirit Freddie was neither Indian nor Iranian nor Zanzibari or whatever, he was a Briton. File:England flag large.png अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey 23:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

They Practice a Persian religion. The haven't adopted anything

Farrokh is also a Persian name Klymen

Multiple personalities...

Well funnily if your see [1] I.P 65.101.164.136 whp claims to be User:AfghanHistorian, you will find that he makes one edit calling Freddie an "Iranian" and then reverts back his own edit to the original version. Weird indeed. File:England flag large.png अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey 10:32, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Parsi is not Persian

I dont get this, Parsis have CONSIDERABLE Gujarati ancestry and their mtDNA is closer to Gujaratis than modern day Iranians. Hope you get that.

NAME?!?!?!

Shouldn't we start by saying his real name, Farrokh Bulsara? Also, shouldn't this page be under "Farrokh Bulsara?"71.31.235.105 02:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

His real name is adequately explained (and bolded) in the first section under Early life, and the article title properly is his stage name as per the MOS. -- I@n ≡ talk 02:43, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks Billvoltage 20:26, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

By the way, although it will be impossible to ever correct this, Freddie Mercury's real name was actually Farok Bulsara. That is according to the Sunday London Times article that can be found on this talk page. Freddie Mercury's mother has also confirmed this. On the other hand, I am puzzled by the birth certificate. Either it is fake or it may have the name incorrectly spelled.

Either it is fake, or his name is spelled as stated above... Birth Certificates are legal documents... Billvoltage 11:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Even if the birth certificate is real though, it has three different things crossed out. It is also not written very clearly. Maybe mistakes really were made on the birth certificate. I think that Freddie Mercury's mother knows what she named her son, and she claims that it was Farok.

You think. Fine, but remember that WP only works with verifiable sources. -- I@n ≡ talk 09:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Anyway it is, his STAGE name was Freddie Mercury - the name the whole world knew him as. And as far as I know he did change his name, or at least tried. Now how his birth name was spelled is a problem - on the othere hand the question is how is it read? I saw many versions of the name Farrokh, Farok, Farokh... Donny 12:24, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

"Freddie died on the same day as KISS drummer and vocalist, Eric Carr, causing Eric's death to be somewhat overshadowed."

I dont know if thats compleatly true. Freddie is odvesly more well known then Eric. I think if Eric would have died on any other day it would have gotten very little press (if not none)

I have to agree with you, as how can one even compare KISS to Queen? Yes that is an opinion, but seriously, the charts show that Queen was more popular, and would, no doubt, have recieved more press-time... My thought on the subject Billvoltage 23:48, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Links to "Persian"

There is no article at "Persian," only a disambiguation page. If you need to use the word persion, please use a piped link such as "Persian people|Persian" or "Persian language|Persian" (and there are many other pages on Persian topics) so that a real article is reaches. Thanks. --Iggle 09:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

ok i have seen how this debate has been going. I think to satisfy the NPOV standards it is important to address both Freddie Mercury's Indian and Persian background. I made a little change. I said rather that he was the first Indian/Iranian rock star because despite what many people have been saying about how he denied his Indian background and stuff yet at the same time, many Indians (those who actually know about his background) consider him to be the first Indian rock star. Thus, satisfying both ends, I have addressed him as the first Iranian/Indian rock star. BengalRenaissanceEccentrica 00:15, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Content dispute

Kindly pay attention to the last changes made on this article by an anon ip editor, and take a consensus decision here. --Andy123(talk) 00:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

"The Voice?"

User 201.102.107.8 has posted saying that Freddie was known as "The Voice", but there is no place saying where this information was obtained... I have never heard him called this (although I am quite young, being barely three months old when he died :( ...) So if anyone knows an official site that may be sourced for this, I think it would keep Wikipedia safe on the "crystal ball" perspective. Billvoltage 01:31, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Songwriting

Perhaps a good idea would be to create a separate page focusing on his songwriting style (use of unusual rhythms, keys, chord functions, modulations) in a more musical way, and to leave here the basic data.