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Requested move 31 January 2018

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the names of individual events. There is some support for moving Fox UFC to UFC on Fox, but even after rereading the discussion a few times, I am not sure it amounts to consensus in the event that the others aren't being moved. If a change is still desired, I'd suggest reinitiating the discussion as a request to move this page alone. Dekimasuよ! 22:06, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]


– WP:COMMONNAME — Despite the format of the current co-branded logo, "Fox UFC" is not used as a name for Fox network UFC broadcasts, or for Fox Sports UFC programming more broadly. "UFC on Fox" is still the most common and recognizable term. As for the titles of individual fight broadcasts, the UFC has not used the "UFC on Fox" naming for at least 3 years, and was transitioning away from it as far back as the "Johnson vs. Dodson" fight, 5 years and twenty-something Fox events ago. At this point, "UFC on Fox: [Fighter] vs. [Fighter]" is a fairly uncommon name format for referencing these events, much less frequently used than "UFC Fight Night: [Fighter] vs. [Fighter]," "UFC Fight Night [Host City]," or even "UFC on Fox [Number]," which is still occasionally used by MMA media outlets. Dancter (talk) 01:38, 31 January 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. –Ammarpad (talk) 13:22, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi@Dancter:, All pages on UFC events initially were created using (1) UFC Fight Night ###, (2) UFC on Fox ### (3) UCF ### and (4) The Ultimate Fighter ## as we had yet to know which fighters would be on the main card. Once the main cards have been announced then the pages would redirect to UFC on Fox: [Fighter] vs. [Fighter], UFC Fight Night: [Fighter] vs [Fighter] and The Ultimate Fighter: [the new title] but UFC ### (flagship event) will remain the same. It is true that UFC does not use UFC on Fox: [Fighter] vs. [Fighter], however, media still using UFC on Fox ###. The UFC on Fox in Wikipedia is used to defined which network airs the event - see List of UFC events an 2017 in UFC. If you look at the bottom of every UFC event in Wikipedia, the very bottom of the page "Ultimate Fighting Championship events -List of UFC events" defined the events by which network they broadcasted - see example UFC on Fox: Jacaré vs. Brunson 2. If the changes to be made as what you have suggested, it will be a big change of all the UFC events and its related pages , as such, kindly reconsider to allow the names stay at such. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 00:44, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@CASSIOPEIA: I'm not proposing a classification change. Template:UFC Events does not have to be restructured. This is simply about the titles of the articles and the common, primary name as stated in the lead. Numbering as presented in the article text will still follow the outside consensus: FOX UFC Fight Nights won't be "also known as UFC Fight Night ###," won't be merged into the UFC Fight Night sequencing, and will still be "also known as UFC on Fox ###."
This is a content issue. The page name should express the name of the subject. Like most other information about the subject, the network that airs the event can be conveyed in the article. If it really is that difficult for editors (and I maintain that it isn't), I would accept a compromise renaming to "UFC on Fox ###," or "UFC on Fox ###: [Fighter] vs. [Fighter]," as both are more common and more useful than the extant format. If we are going to insist on flouting common naming for convenience, we should own up to it and avoid half-measures. Dancter (talk) 02:10, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe a little more confusing for editors, but content should prioritize the readers, who, again, don't see "UFC on Fox" nearly as often in reference to these events. The media and the fan community has managed to adjust. I don't see why Wikipedia can't, as well. As long the correct redirects are established, and the parenthetical "also known as UFC on Fox ###" is included, I see no inappropriate burden that this imposes. Dancter (talk) 02:10, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Dancter: and @Evertonfc13:, Dancter, all UFC events are numbered (UFC on Fox, UFC Fight Night, UFC Flagship events, and The Ultimate Fighter).
Media do use UFC on Fox ### on their print . see here for examples (the regular sites MMA editors using in Wikipedia:
  1. mmana.nl -[1]
  2. mma-today - [2]
  3. mmajunkie - [3]
  4. mmafigting - [4]
  5. bloodyelbow - [5]
  6. mmamania - [6]
You suggestion on renaming to "UFC on Fox ###," or "UFC on Fox ###: [Fighter] vs. [Fighter] seem good idea to; however, not sure how other are the thoughts of other MMA editors. Also it the above would be the naming then what happen to UFC Fight Night or UFC flagshiip event? (changing to UFC Fight Night ### or UFC Fight Night ###" [fighter] vs [fighter] and UFC ###: [fighter] vs [fighter]? Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 03:27, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@CASSIOPEIA: My whole intention was to move these eighteen pages to align with their more common and recognizable names. If somehow trying to accomplish this goal results in over a hundred other pages to be moved to reflect less common names (such as "UFC Fight Night ###"), I will regret ever having tried. UFC Fight Night 6.5 notwithstanding, the naming for existing "UFC Fight Night" articles is generally fine as it is. The new targets I proposed for these articles are clearly the most common names for their subjects. I didn't want to touch earlier Fox events, from the days when the promotion was trying get "Fox UFC Saturday" to catch on, but it never really did. The UFC does not really distinguish between the Fox events and its other UFC Fight Nights anymore, hence the consolidation around the "UFC Fight Night" name. The only real reason "UFC on Fox" is occasionally referenced for event names now is for clarifying numbering systems that the UFC does not acknowledge anymore. I believe UFC president Dana White even mentioned in a media scrum that continued numbering of UFC Fight Nights is the media's thing at this point, that the UFC takes no part in anymore. I want to shift away from "UFC on Fox" because it makes little sense without the numbering. That doesn't mean I'm willing to rename "UFC Fight Night" pages with numbers to justify the continued use of "UFC on Fox." Dancter (talk) 06:44, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Dancter:, Hey, I understand your rationale for UFC doesnt use the UFC on Fox as title name for the event. However, the media do and when editors input the content, we use the print media as source and reader associate the event not only by who head line the main card but but also fight ### as well. It not the media use UFC on Fox ### occasionally, they use it "always" - see below. As editor would refer to the fight ### before FC announced/confirmed which fighters are paired in the main card, then only the title redirect for its initial UFC on Fox ###. If to overhaul the whole UFC event titles is not the aim, then at least, make UFC on Fox past and future fight uniform in naming, such as UFC on Fox ###: [Fighter] vs [Fighter] (this is just my opinion, but no sure other regular mma editors would agree with that). I thank you for taking this up and trying to get the common name in place. Have a good day. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 13:12, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Here are are example where media use UFC on Fox ### (UFC on Fox 29) for John Moraga vs Wilson Reis instead of UFC on Fox: Poirier vs. Gaethje
  1. mmajunkie - [7]
  2. mmamania - [8]
  3. mmafighting - [9]
  4. sherdog - [10]
  5. mmaweekly - [11]
  6. fightsports.t - [12]
  7. mma.uno - [13]
  8. mmadna.nl - [14]
CASSIOPEIA(talk) 13:12, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@CASSIOPEIA:Only two of the pages in this proposal are about future events, but your examples are solely about the one event that's furthest out—for which the available information is the least reliable, most subject to change, and least relevant to the event as ultimately received. It seems as if you are arguing that since future Fox events are often referred to a certain way initially, the naming of Fox UFC events in their entirety should therefore follow that initial precedent for the sake of consistency. We don't still locate the article for The Cloverfield Paradox at God Particle just because of what it was referred to as first, or known as for longer, based on the volume of pre-release coverage by the enthusiast press.

The examples you've noted are all specialist blogs, none of which do actual print, to my knowledge. For those who've only learned about the UFC these past three years from more professional media—newspapers, television, ESPN, the BBC, Sky Sports, Fox Sports, etc.—they're not going to recognize any of these events by "UFC on Fox ###" at all. I would argue that "UFC Fight Night" wins out both in terms of recognizability and applicability. Readers associate a UFC event with the name they recognize it by and the details they care about, which aren't necessarily the same thing. For many followers, the "UFC on Fox" number is neither of those. A viewer in England or Brazil is not going to care that a Fight Night card is the umpteenth time a Fight Night is airing on a network they're not watching it on.

I don't share this preoccupation with uniformity to the extent that it comes at the expense of accurate representation of a subject. I referenced the situation with Ortiz vs. Shamrock 3 already, but as another example, UFC: Silva vs. Irvin was another event that was billed at the time as something unusual and special, a short notice production in which the UFC showcased its dominant middlewight champion making his debut at the weight class above, clearly to take the steam out of Affliction's pay-per-view debut. Yes, it was officially categorized as a "UFC Fight Night" event, but it was marketed as a PPV-level spectacle showing live on basic cable. The omission of "Fight Night" from the title was deliberate—not incidental, not unnoticed. That impression is lost in the Wikipedia article, which, just as in these pages, uses one of the more uncommon titles for its subject, and doesn't even mention the official one in the article. All for the sake of uniformity. Dancter (talk) 21:27, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion - Here's my opinion on this. The events are labeled as UFC Fight Night: Fighter vs Fighter Live on Fox by the UFC. So you can either go with UFC on Fox, UFC Live on Fox or go all the way with UFC Fight Night: Fighter vs Fighter Live on Fox but definitely not UFC Fight Night because those are different type of events. We can still use the numbered format prior to the announcement of the main event like UFC Live on Fox ## or UFC Fight Night: Live on Fox ## Tbb 911 (talk) 17:36, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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