Talk:Fortinbras

Pat Puchanan reference

Editing: I don't think the Pat Buchanan reference adds any useful or particularly relevant information to this article. I think it should be deleted. If anyone comes across this and agrees, go ahead and delete it. Stephen Fireduck 18:24, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree.75.110.124.72 16:06, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I, too, agree.--Troyvarsity 13:04, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Which

It is stated that Rufus Sewell et al played Fortinbras in the film, but did he play the old Fortinbras, or the young one.--TimothyJacobson (talk) 19:35, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Source

I have removed the following from the article (which was under the subheading "source"

:In French, Fortinbras literally means "strong armed." Fortinbras is also the name of the family dog in fiction writer Madeleine L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time".

The first sentence should probably be reinstated somewhere (as it is likely that Shakespeare used the name for that reason) but the second sentence is irrelevent. Maybe it should go on a disambiguation page somewhere, but L'Engle wrote in the 1920s-ish, and, if anything, she used Shakespeare as her source --TimothyJacobson (talk) 19:39, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Josephine

The article states "Fortinbras sees a beautiful girl named Josephine in the beginning portion of the play." When did this happen? I recently reread the play, and I have no recollection of Fortinbras being on stage any time at the beggining of the play, or of any character named Josephine.204.69.190.75 (talk)

• Looks like vandalism to me judging by the user's previous edits. I've removed it now. Ycdkwm (talk) 07:17, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Political situation in Scandinavia at the time of writing "Hamlet"

The Kalmar Union had ceased to exist at the time of Shakespeare's writing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Kalmar>. Of course he may have set the play in the period of the Kalmar Union. At the time of writing Norway was part of the Kingdom of Denmark

Renard099 (talk) 10:02, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Hamlet

Hamlet is neither hesitant nor reluctant to act. He is deliberate and he is a man of reason. He is conducting an investigation into allegations made by a spirit, which could possibly be evil and sent to play on Hamlet's dislike for his uncle, causing Hamlet to kill King Claudius and create more discord in Demark. And I'm not sure about young Fortinbras avenging his father's death: he's out to reclaim lands lost by King Fortinbras to King Hamlet in personal battle as described by Horatio.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Troyvarsity (talk • contribs) 15:17, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Koll

Is Fortinbras, perhaps based on Koll in the [[Gesta Danorum}}? {{Horwendill]] (King Hamlet) killed Koll, a Norwegian king in a Viking raid, and then married Gerutha (Gertrude) and has Amleth (Hamlet.--206.78.50.75 (talk) 18:47, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

This article is confusing Fortinbras with Laertes

I agree with Troyvarsity that Fortinbras is motivated by land rather than revenge.

"Determined to avenge his slain father at any cost" is a reasonable statement about Laertes, but definitely not about Fortinbras. Fortinbras's father had been killed THIRTY YEARS earlier by old King Hamlet, who is now dead.

Both Horatio and Claudius say that young Fortinbras is planning to attack Denmark to recover the land his father had lost. Fortinbras is motivated by ambition, not revenge. I think it would be appropriate to include the relevant quotes, which could stand by themselves, with no need for interpretation:

Horatio (1,1,108-120): ". . . . Now, sir, young Fortinbras, Of unimproved mettle hot and full, Hath in the skirts of Norway here and there Shark'd up a list of lawless resolutes, For food and diet, to some enterprise That hath a stomach in't; which is no other-- As it doth well appear unto our state-- But to recover of us, by strong hand And terms compulsatory, those foresaid lands So by his father lost: and this, I take it, Is the main motive of our preparations, The source of this our watch and the chief head Of this post-haste and romage in the land.

Claudius (1,2,17-25): ". . . young Fortinbras, Holding a weak supposal of our worth, Or thinking by our late dear brother's death Our state to be disjoint and out of frame, Colleagued with the dream of his advantage, He hath not fail'd to pester us with message, Importing the surrender of those lands Lost by his father, with all bonds of law, To our most valiant brother."

Ray Eston Smith Jr (talk) 20:21, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

allusion to the political situation of the day

In Shakespeare's time there was a government censor whose job was to censor any allusions to current political events. Shakespeare probably often snuck things past the censor, but he had to be so subtle that modern critics can seldom agree on the existence of any particular allusion.

One exception is "convocation of politic worms are e'en at him. Your WORM is your only EMPEROR for DIET" (4,3,23-24) which most scholars agree is an allusion to the DIET of WORMS, where Martin Luther was outlawed by the Holy Roman EMPEROR. However, I've never seen a convincing explanation of why Shakespeare made that allusion and exactly how it fits into the play. (I believe Hamlet really was in part about the conflict between Protestants and Catholics, but I can't see how Polonius could be an allusion to Martin Luther.)

Personally I think there is strong evidence that Shakespeare's Hamlet was influenced by James VI:

The first husband of Hamlet's mother died from a poisoned ear. The first husband(Francis II) of James' mother (Mary Queen of Scots) died from an infected ear (rumored to be poisoned).

Hamlet's father was murdered in his orchard. James VI's father (Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley) was murdered in his orchard.

Hamlet's mother married his father's murderer. James' mother married the man (Lord Bothwell) who was believed to be his father's murderer.

Hamlet's father's ghost cried for revenge. A painting of James' father in his childhood home cried for revenge.

Hamlet's stepfather (Claudius), the King of Denmark, died from drinking poison. James' father-in-law, the King of Denmark, died from drink (alcoholism).

James' mother was doomed and James was endangered by a plot (the Babington plot) involving messages in bungholes. "stopping a bung-hole" (5,1,202)

(The above was excerpted from my unpublished essay, It Began With a Lass (The False Steward), http://www.thyorisons.com/#False_Steward )

However, I don't think I could include that Hamlet/James VI parallel in any Wikipedia article because it would be labeled as "original research."

Ray Eston Smith Jr (talk) 21:02, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Fortinbras is to be crowned ruler

Fortinbras is not just “to be” crowned ruler – Hamlet deliberately gave Fortinbras his “dying voice” (5,2,372). To understand why, we must recall what Hamlet had said about Fortinbras and what Fortinbras said about all the dead “princes” he found at the Danish court:

Hamlet (describing Fortinbras) (4,4,49-67) Witness this army of such mass and charge Led by a delicate and tender prince, Whose spirit with divine ambition puff'd . . . . see The imminent death of twenty thousand men, That, for a fantasy and trick of fame, Go to their graves like beds, fight for a plot Whereon the numbers cannot try the cause, Which is not tomb enough and continent To hide the slain? . . .

PRINCE FORTINBRAS (5, 2,381-384) This quarry cries on havoc. O proud death, What feast is toward in thine eternal cell, That thou so many princes at a shot So bloodily hast struck?

The arrogant and cowardly Prince Fortinbras, who would send thousands of commoners to their graves for his "honour." is shocked that, at the Danish Court, "so many princes" have died. In contrast, Hamlet has just saved the lives of thousands of commoners by simply surrendering to Fortinbras.

Hamlet could have passed the crown to Bernardo with the injunction to "fight to the last man." But instead he gave his "dying voice" to Fortinbras. The war that had been impending all through the play, and indeed had been impending since the day Hamlet was born, the same day that old Hamlet killed old Fortinbras and acquired that bloody ground – that war has suddenly been defused - by Hamlet's dying voice.

This is probably too much interpretation to be included in a Wikipedia article, however I think at least those two highly important quotes (and also the quote where Hamlet gives Fortinbras his “dying voice”) should be included. Ray Eston Smith Jr (talk) 21:47, 23 October 2011 (UTC)