Talk:Flora Kaai Hayes

Flora Kaai Hayes has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: August 3, 2021. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Flora Kaai Hayes appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 18 June 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in a 1922 letter to the editor, Flora Kaai Hayes defended the morality of hula compared to the "bosom to bosom, thigh to thigh dances" seen on steamboats and roof gardens at the time?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Flora Kaai Hayes.

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Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Thanks for creating.

Celestina007 (talk) 02:05, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Desertarun (talk) 07:54, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that in a 1922 letter to the editor, Flora Kaai Hayes defended the morality of hula compared to the "bosom to bosom, thigh to thigh dances" seen on steamboats and roof gardens at the time? Source: The Honolulu Advertiser, rightmost column, about halfway down
- ALT1:... that Hawaiian legislator Flora Kaai Hayes was given the Kalākaua Torah after the death of Princess Abigail Kawānanakoa, and owned it until her own death? Source: The Honolulu Advertiser, center column
- ALT2:... that Flora Kaai Hayes, who would later serve in the Hawaii Territorial House, stopped in Hollywood to act in 1937 film The Hurricane on her way back to Hawaii from a conference in Virginia? Source: The Honolulu Advertiser, photo caption

Reviewed: KIXL

Created by Ezlev (talk). Self-nominated at 19:26, 2 June 2021 (UTC).[reply]

The article is long enough and new enough with no copyright violations. A QPQ has been completed. The promoter can choose the hook. SL93 (talk) 23:53, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

These two news clippings conflict with a few things in the article, and have some new details

First page of article and continued. ezlev_tlk/ctrbs 07:47, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 04:06, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Possible source for times in legislature

[1] ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 04:25, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

According to the State of Hawaii's Legislative Reference Bureau, their internal record of Hayes' time in office is as follows:

1939 thru 1940, Oahu 4th
1943 thru 1952, Oahu 4th
1959, Oahu 14th (Terr.)

Still looking for a more ideal source, although that could probably be cited in a pinch. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 19:07, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think the state records list the legislative sessions Flora Kaai Hayes sat and served as representatives not her term. If you consider the term as when a representative is elected to when another is elected in their place then checking election records each November every election year might help. KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:01, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

KAVEBEAR, thanks, I think I pieced it together using election-related news clippings. If you feel like taking a look, I'd appreciate a sanity-check on the relevant section

ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 04:48, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I can take a look later. KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:53, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, no. Terms for elected representative don't begin until the following year after election, presumably when they are sworn in by January of the odd number year, which might make it hard to date beginning of terms by month and date?

Elected in 1938 [2]
Ran for Territorial Senate and Defeated in 1940 [3]
Elected to House in 1942 [4]
Elected in 1944 [5]
Elected in 1946 [6]
Elected in 1948 [7]
Elected in 1950 [8]
Ran in 1952 for Thelma Akana Harrison's vacated Senate seat [9] but defeated [10]
No run in 1954
Ran for House and defeated in 1956 [11]
Ran in 1958 for House [12]

KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:20, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Flora Kaai Hayes/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Aussie Article Writer (talk · contribs) 11:15, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	I have done a copyedit, but some of the sentences are a bit choppy. Can you ask the Guild of Copy Editors to assist with this? Ezlev, I have taken the liberty of asking on your behalf. I hope this was not too forward of me. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 12:54, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply] I think it's not too bad. I took a stab at a copyedit myself. Still would be good to get the guild to check it over. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 01:37, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	The lead section is too long and is too lengthy, it should be cut down somewhat. I am happy to help with this, if you would like. In particular, I think we can remove some of the material that is already well detailed in the body of the article and strip the lead to the achievements and significant events in her life - we don't need to note where she was born, or where she went to school in the lead as this is only meant to be the briefest of summaries of the whole article. Much better! Thanks. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 01:34, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply] The second section has a subsection, which has a subsection. I suggest that you call the second section "Early career", make the first subsection a first level section, and make the "Legislative activity" subsection a first level section also. A flatter structure is better than one with too many subsections in this case. Corrected by nom. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 01:34, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	I made a small structural change.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Please note: any sources I cannot read, I am assuming are correct. I do, however, feel it is appropriate to note that I have not been able to verify them. Early life: ~~"Her mother Katherine Kahumu Kaai was a descendant of Keōua." could we get a source?~~ Fixed by nom. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 01:32, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply] All other references that I can read (there is a book that I can't get access to) check out. Career: - all references I can read check out Hawaii Territorial House of Representatives: ~~the bundled citation is fine, but needs to have a full citation to each of the newspaper articles~~ Fixed by nom. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 01:32, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply] Legislative activity: - these check out Later life: - the sources I can read check out Filmography: - all sources verified
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	~~The following source ends with a tremendous number of organizations she was part of. And I mean a lot. These seem notable enough for the article, I think they need to be in the article.~~ has been done! - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 16:26, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	File:Flora Hayes 1965.png - PD, tagged and described correctly File:Flora Kaai marries Homer Hayes, 1914.png - PD, tagged and described correctly File:King Kalakaua's Torah and yad.JPG - CC license
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	File:Flora Hayes 1965.png - depicts the subject File:Flora Kaai marries Homer Hayes, 1914.png - an excellent image of an article about her marriage File:King Kalakaua's Torah and yad.JPG - illustrates the object described in the section
	7. Overall assessment.

Discussion

I note that the image in this source which has a photo of a still image of the film looks like it may be out of copyright... perhaps something to add to the article? - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 12:24, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ezlev I have reviewed the article, hopefully you will be back to see this review! I would love to help work with you on getting this to GA status, I think we can IAR and extend this review till you get back. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 12:50, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Aussie Article Writer, thank you so much for beginning this review! I’ll be offwiki for the remainder of the month, and I can’t wait to work on this with you once I’m back. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 21:56, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Aussie Article Writer, I'm back! I believe your notes from attributes 1b and 2b are resolved now – if not, please let me know what you'd like changed. (It's possible that the lede is still too long, but if so, I think your fresh eyes are needed to determine what else to cut.) I'm about to do a proofread in hopes of cleaning up some of the choppy sentences mentioned in 1a. As for 3a, I'm having trouble picturing where to include those organizations in the article since there's so little information (when she was in a given position, for how long, etc). Do you think a list-like structure in a subsection could work, or if not, what were you imagining? Thanks again for working with me on this! ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 18:13, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ezlev No probs, if there isn't much info maybe make a a list like you suggest would do the trick. The lead is much better, I just coalesced the first two paragraphs together. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 01:37, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Aussie Article Writer, thanks! I've added an "other positions" section with a simple bulleted list, omitting positions which are mentioned earlier in the article. What are your thoughts? ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 03:05, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I’d add all the positions, no need to omit them. It is a list, after all. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 22:02, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that'll make sense if the list is framed as "other positions", i.e. positions not mentioned in the article prose. Making it a list of all positions Hayes held seems strange, but if you think that's better...? ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 22:45, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I agree with you, best make it a list of all organizations. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 22:38, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not a problem – there's no rush (a fact of which I have to frequently remind myself). I've made the suggested change! ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 03:14, 31 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Legend! This passes GA. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 16:26, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fantastic! Thank you so much for the review, Aussie Article Writer. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 17:05, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]