Talk:Flag of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization

Ref. 1 says the flag was a bicolor of black and red defaced with a golden rampant lion, and inscribed with the motto "Freedom or Death". The image used in this article is of a plain red and black flag. --WavesSaid (talk) 03:47, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is a stylized variant of the flag. However, I can't create the complete one, as a distinct image and upload it on Commons. If you can do it, please. Jingiby (talk) 08:05, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but all sources I've come across call it черно-червено (i.e. not червено-черно). --WavesSaid (talk) 13:10, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Check the location of the colors [1], please. Jingiby (talk) 14:31, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are you kidding me? A Google Image search is not a reliable source. The Vergina Star and Iranian, Turkish and Albanians flags are also present among the results... --WavesSaid (talk) 23:55, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, I am not kidding. But you are. Jingiby (talk) 06:06, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

On 14 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Requested move 14 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 21:20, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flag of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization → ? – I suggest that the name of this page be changed. The current name represents it only as the flag of IMRO, but it was used more broadly by the proponents of an autonomous or independent Macedonia. See, for example, this 1922 article entitled "The Flag of independent Macedonia". I suggest "Macedonian red and black flag" or something similar. Идеологист (talk) 19:47, 14 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Bensci54 (talk) 17:58, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jingiby You have already discusses this article. What do you think about the name change proposal? Идеологист (talk) 13:16, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The idea of an autonomous Macedonia and later of independent Macedonia was promoted initially by the IMRO and the Supreme Macedonian Committee. Per sources provided in this article, this flag was also promoted initially by the IMRO. Wikipedia is based on secondary sources, not on a single primary one. The fact it was used by other entities can be mentioned there too. However independent Macedonia was not established till 1991. At this time none of the organisation that proclaimed this idea existed. This flag wasn't in use for decades then too. Jingiby (talk) 17:42, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if I understand you well, but the demand for an independent state of Macedonia was especially relevant after the First World War. See Палешутски, Костадин. Македонското освободително движение след Първата световна война (1918 – 1924). София, 1993. Paleshutski, a secondary source, does reference the same article I cited and wrote about in here (which you removed). The author of the article does talk that this is a proposal for a flag of the proposed independent state of Macedonia. It's the same flag as the IMRO one, that's why I am saying that we should expand the article to include all instances of this red and black Macedonian flag, rather than limit the information to it only being a flag of the IMRO. Идеологист (talk) 17:59, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have already cited Paleshutski in the article. However, there is no need to transcribe Paleshutski's entire article here. This is enough for now, I think. Let's keep the encyclopedic style. Greetings. Jingiby (talk) 18:31, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Need a firm suggestion of new target Bensci54 (talk) 17:58, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.