Talk:Fitz

Illegitimate vs Legitimate child

== Naming illegitimate children ==Fitz could also be a very wonderful brother who loves and cares about his little SISTER or brother The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name#Irish_surname_prefixes) contradicts this page's assertion that Fitz was used to designate illegitimate children:

"Fitz: a Norman-French word derived from the Latin word filius ("son"). It was used in patronymics by thousands of men in the early Norman period in Ireland (e.g. fitz Stephen, fitz Richard, fitz Robert, fitz William) and only on some occasions did it become used as an actual surname, the most famous example being the FitzGerald Earls of Kildare. Yet well into the 17th and 18th century it was used in certain areas dominated by the Old English of Ireland in its original form, as a patronymic. The Tribes of Galway were especially good at conserving this form, with examples such as John fitz John Bodkin and Michael Lynch fitz Arthur, used even as late as the early 1800's. Despite claims to the contrary, the use of Fitz in a surname never denoted illegitimacy. This misunderstanding may have originated because a number of illegitimate members of the British royal family were given such surnames: some of the illegitimate children of King Charles II were named FitzCharles or FitzRoy ("son of the King"); those of King James II were named FitzJames; those of Prince William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (later King William IV) were named FitzClarence."

(^^^That is not my post.^^^) So can anyone check if it was > deliberately < used for illegitimate children? Mountleek (talk) 22:40, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the early fitzes were legitimate; it was only in Tudor and Stuart times that it clearly became associated with royal bastards. But that was only for people newly give a fitz- surname. The old surnames, the FitzAlans for instance, were perfectly legitimate. I believe the wording in the article generalising a bit the illegitimacy of a child with a fitz- surname should be revised to be more detailed on Illegitimate vs Legitimate child and also if Fitz- had been used for sons only or daughters too. --178.193.101.176 (talk) 07:14, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fitzname naming convention

Is there a policy statement on Fitzname article naming?

I've created a few surname articles with the suffix lower case (for example, Fitzduncan, Fitzhugh, Fitzmaurice, Fitzmorris, Fitzstephen).
I believe the better spelling would be with the suffix as a captial letter (for example, FitzGerald).
Note, no space between prefix/suffix, and no hyphen (though we should include "Fitzname", "Fitz Name", "fitz Name", "Fitz-Name" people within the article proper).

I also posted this question on the Wikipedia:Anthroponymy talk page. Rosiestephenson (talk) 21:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, I found thiswebsite. Here, the Fitz surnames are all listed in the "FitzGerald" format, not "Fitzgerald" format. Rosiestephenson (talk) 19:15, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fitz- or -son?

The lead section is confusing. It claims: "This usage derives from the Norman fiz / filz..., meaning 'son of', which was coupled with the name of the father (e.g. Fitz Gilbert, meaning 'son of Gilbert') in the noble families according to the Scandinavian tradition to add -son behind the father's name." Wait a minute. "[A]ccording to the Scandinavian tradition to add -son"? If it was "according to" that tradition, wouldn't that make it "Gilbertson"? I think this needs to be reworded.... - dcljr (talk) 01:16, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are right Dcljr. It means that the Sandinavian tradition added -son...then the word was translated in French as Fitz- by the Norman barons and clerks when they lost the use of the Scandinavian language, but they set it as "prefix" according to the romance syntax.Nortmannus (talk) 15:25, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This needs to be clarified in the article itself. - dcljr (talk) 22:46, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed the phrase "according to" into "mirroring". This seemed to me to be the minimal change that would improve the situation. If anyone else has a better wording, please submit it. - dcljr (talk) 21:55, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good, I cannot do better.Nortmannus (talk) 10:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Patron saint?

I was told that "Fitz" can designate the name of an Irish family's patron saint, e.g. Fitzjohn for Saint John. Can anyone confirm this?2602:304:CC3D:D7A0:14E7:E638:F6C0:D7C (talk) 23:45, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fitzer

I have always been aware of names like Fitzpatrick, Fitzjohn etc. But does Fitzer fall into this ideal of name making? 2A00:23EE:1CF0:DB20:93AB:B248:D96B:80C6 (talk) 12:37, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]