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Fishing, Calling, Qu'Appelle Lakes

[edit]

In response to that IP that changed things to Calling Lakes, it seems all three names are commonly used to refer to that chain of lakes. What's the best name? Probably the most common. But what is that? Looking at the sources in the article body:

A quick google search for links not in the article:

That's a quick google search. I noticed that there were several business in the area that call themselves Calling Lakes. It doesn't seem that there is one dominate name for that chain of lakes. Several of the above sites use more than one name. I'm inclined to leave it Fishing Lakes, though, because the Canadian Geographical Names Database and Tourism Saskatchewan (government site) uses Fishing Lakes. Anyways, if others think a move is warranted, then they can do a move request and we can see what happens. Masterhatch (talk) 00:57, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Out of the 11 name usage examples you supplied .... 3 or 27% are for "fishing" while the other 77% are for either Calling or Qu'Appelle. 198.245.116.192 (talk) 03:42, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please do a proper move request. Masterhatch (talk) 03:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know how. 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's all right here: Wikipedia:Requested moves. Masterhatch (talk) 04:06, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, three call it Calling Lakes and five are Qu'Appelle Lakes. So shouldn't you be pushing Qu'Appelle Lakes? Regardless the sources themselves also have to be looked at. And both the gov of Canada and Sask gov's tourist site use Fishing Lakes. I think that's important. But, again, please do a proper move request and let the wiki community decide. Masterhatch (talk) 03:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If anything "fishing" should be demoted to as "also known as". 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other organizations that use the "calling lakes" moniker:
- Calling Lakes Planning District
- Calling Lakes Cruisers (local snow mobile club)
- Calling Lakes Dental
- Calling Lakes Ecomuseum
- Calling Lakes Classic (Fishing Tournament)
- Real Estate Brokers using Calling Lakes
- Calling Lakes Liquor
- " Katepwa, Mission, Echo and Pasqua are known as The Calling Lakes (they used to be known as The Fishing Lakes until someone realized there was a perfectly good legend going to waste)"
- Calling Lakes Centre
- Calling Lakes Veterinary Hospice
- Calling Lakes Emergency Management (the local fire dept)
How many local businesses have adopted the moniker of "fishing lake" ?? 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:02, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That has nothing to do with the price of beer. It's great that those businesses named themselves Calling Lakes Something or Others... but none of that meets Wikipedia:Reliable sources and that is necessary for the name of this article. Masterhatch (talk) 04:09, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Usage examples for Calling Lakes from the local news publisher 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:35, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IT should be noted that the local newspaper publisher uses a pay wall on their website... only a small fraction of their content is publicly available on their website. With that, there are at 50+ usage examples of "calling lakes". 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:41, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If a thousand business in Regina started calling themselves Pile-of-Bones and a group set up a website and started promoting that as the preferred name for Saskatchewan's capital, should we changed wikipedia's Regina article to Pile-of-Bones? Of course not! Why? because I betcha reliable sources would still call it Regina. So, with Fishing, Calling, Qu'Appelle Lakes, we have to determine what the reliable sources are calling those lakes, not the local dentist or liquor store. Anyways, that's my piece. Please set up a move request and we'll see where it goes (who knows, maybe this article will get changed to Calling Lakes or Qu'Appelle Lakes). Masterhatch (talk) 04:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That example doesn't fit this scenario.... Regina is the name of a singular city, not a region. A city has an official legal name... unfortunately regions do not.
Calling Lakes is not a singular town or city... it is a region. 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rename this page to Calling Lakes

[edit]

This region wants to be referred to as the "calling lakes" to differentiate itself from another lake that is nearby that is also called "fishing lake".

There are local government structures that are in place that demonstrate this. For example, the existence of the an organization called the "calling lakes planning district" and their associated tourism focused website ( http://www.4callinglakes.ca ).

The very existence of the planning district is demonstrates endorsement of the "calling lakes" moniker from several local governments in the area...

"The Calling Lakes District Planning Commission is a regional planning group, sanctioned by government, which includes members from: The Town of Fort Qu’Appelle RM of North Qu’Appelle No. 187 Resort Village of Fort San Resort Village of B-Say-Tah Lebret The District of Katepwa These groups are the signatory’s on a formal agreement that created the Planning Commission for the Calling Lakes. These signatory’s also put the money up front to get the group operating. Since inception our formal group has been expanded to include representatives from the Treaty 4 Tribal Council, Fort Chamber of Commerce, and Lipton, the Regina Regional Opportunity Commission, the Parks Department, Highways and many other government departments that have an interest in a particular agenda item." --- source: http://www.4callinglakes.ca/regional/commission/calling-lake-planning-commission

In summary... the local governments want to be called the "calling lakes". 198.245.116.192 (talk) 03:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also Qu'Appelle is french for "who calls" as in CALLING LAKES. 198.245.116.192 (talk) 03:29, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:COMMONNAME. It doesn't matter what some group "wants" the lakes to be called, it matter what they are called. Instead of engaging in an edit war, i suggest you see Wikipedia:Requested moves and see what the wiki community says. Masterhatch (talk) 03:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding a comment from that IP's edit summary, it doesn't matter if I'm local or you are local. We have proper processes on wikipedia to determine article titles. Also, that "other" Fishing Lake has nothing to do with this. It doesn't matter in the context of wikipedia that they have similar names. Again, I suggest you do a proper move request and state your case with references. Being "local" doesn't count. Masterhatch (talk) 03:44, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@198.245.116.192:
Read WP:COMMONNAME.
Then answer this question:
Do a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources use "Calling Lakes"? Paradoctor (talk) 03:49, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 9 October 2024

[edit]

Fishing Lakes → Calling Lakes – The widely used name for these lakes amongst local governments and organization is no longer Fishing Lakes. It has been replaced by Calling Lakes with Qu'Appelle, a french word that means "who calls", as the second most common name usage. The locale is predominantly English speakers with french being another official language in the country. It is less ambiguous to use the proper Calling Lakes name as search engine results for Fishing Lakes will bring content for lakes in general that are good to fish at regardless of location. Therefore fishing lakes is an ambiguous place name and should be demoted. 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Usage examples from the local newspaper publisher 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please provide the evidence that supports your claims. WP:V: all material must be attributable to reliable, published sources Paradoctor (talk) 04:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Usage examples from CBC Saskatchewan for "calling lakes" 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Katepwa, Mission, Echo and Pasqua are known as The Calling Lakes (they used to be known as The Fishing Lakes until someone realized there was a perfectly good legend going to waste)" Source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 04:53, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That only shows that other names exist. The topic of this discussion is WP:COMMONNAME. I repeat my question from before:
Is there a a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources that use one the three names mentioned so far?
Please provide evidence for all three criteria. Paradoctor (talk) 05:01, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Dickie Yuzicapi, from Okanese First Nation, tells the stories of why this part of the Qu'Appelle Valley is called the Calling Lakes."
Source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"ARSU1 serves recreational boaters and beachgoers in the Calling Lakes Region and beyond, according to Maczko." - Source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:06, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"The Calling Lakes Area is located in the south eastern part of Saskatchewan in the scenic Qu'Appelle Valley. For some, it is a cottage country full of ..." - Source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:11, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"CLEM believes in protecting the Qu’Appelle Valley’s Calling Lakes using the UN’s 17 goals for sustainable development. " - Source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
""We want a unanimous decision by the property owners of the valley and we will join with
Calling Lakes as a united front for all of the lakes in the chain," said Cherylynn Walters," - Source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Public interest in the water quality of the Calling Lakes continues to grow."
"We live within the lower part of the Qu’Appelle watershed, which includes the Calling Lakes"
"All of us depend upon the streams and rivers that flow into the Calling Lakes - Pasqua, Echo, Mission, Katepwa, Crooked and Round Lake, which were left from glacial melt thousands of years ago."
- Source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:24, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Residents downstream from Regina (in the communities around the Calling Lakes) and 11 First Nations in the area..." - source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:29, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is cherry-picked data, not evidence. Where are the links you already acknowledged, which make support "Fishing Lakes" or "Qu'Apelle lakes"?
How are these reliable sources?
Can you show they are independent of each other? Paradoctor (talk) 05:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you are actually taking the time to read through any of these. Sources are news organizations like CBC who are doing reporting on stories and quoting witnesses, etc..
As well as other minor independent sources too... but they are all clearly showing a consensus as well on the usage of "Calling Lakes". These minor sources include a joint publication from the POLARIS INSTITUTE AND THE CANADIAN UNION OF PUBLIC EMPLOYEES, a publication from the Qu'Appelle Valley Environmental Association, a newsletter from the The Provincial Association of Resort Communities of Saskatchewan (PARCS), A practicum by Amanda M. Lang submitted to the Faculty of Graduate Studies of The University of Manitoba in partial fulfilment of the requirements of the degree of Master of Landscape Architecture.
These are all independent and legitimate organizations. 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:56, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I put in a link for each and every source. Are you looking at the sources? 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Burden of proof is yours. See also WP:PROVEIT. Don't throw a boatload of data at people and then tell them "do your own analysis", k? Paradoctor (talk) 06:07, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am doing the analysis can I am documenting it here. 198.245.116.192 (talk) 06:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
documenting it with links to each quote and source. 198.245.116.192 (talk) 06:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Plus this is data in support of a name change request... not for use as content in the article body itself. 198.245.116.192 (talk) 06:20, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article title is part of the content.
I am doing the analysis All I see is a bunch of quotes. But hey, maybe it's me. Let's see what others have to say. Paradoctor (talk) 07:04, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"These lakes are now more commonly referred to as the Calling Lakes." -
"I came to the conclusion that it needed to be situated within the Calling Lakes* area because of the significance
this area holds in the First Nations narrative.
  • The four lakes, from west to east, are: Pasqua Lake, Echo Lake, Mission Lake, and Katepwa Lake."
Source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 05:40, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Fort Qu’Appelle, or “the Fort” as it is fondly known, is located in the
Qu’Appelle valley, nestled amidst the chain of Calling Lakes that winds through the low,
rolling hills." - Source 198.245.116.192 (talk) 06:02, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
“We were looking at a way to make our presence and services more permanent and to provide a bigger range of services in the Calling Lakes region,” said John Maczko, who co-founded Amphibious Rescue Support Unit One (ARSU1) in 2015. - Source Global News 198.245.116.192 (talk) 06:12, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"There has been local civic-booster advocacy to rename the Fishing Lakes as the Calling Lakes, so as further to emphasize Pauline Johnson's "legend of the Qu'Appelle Valley"." - Source Wikipedia 198.245.116.192 (talk) 06:20, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"The legend of the Calling Lakes is well known throughout the region. Pasqua, Echo, Mission and Katepwa Lakes are calling you to the valley. The Town of Fort Qu’Appelle and the Calling Lakes Qu’Appelle Valley offer a unique snapshot into Saskatchewan’s history" - Source Grasslands News 2021 Staycation Guide 198.245.116.192 (talk) 06:35, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The identified sources seem mostly low quality, promotional, and unreliable. It would be more helpful to identify higher quality sources and discuss/highlight their quality than to just provide examples of quotes from random sources. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 13:58, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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