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Archive 1

Photo

I have taken a photo of a bottle of fireball that I can add if I knew how to make the infobox bit, I will look into it when i get time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.57.122 (talk) 23:55, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Liqueur vs. whisky

Fireball is not actually a liqueur but is a cinnamon whisky. It is made using Canadian Whisky. Would anyone be opposed to changing this? KSimon NolaZ (talk) 20:00, 29 April 2013 (UTC)KSimon_NolaZ

If you look at the definition of 'liqueur', you will see that a mixture of a spirit (such as whisky) with sweeteners and flavourings is properly called a liqueur. Here is a link to a photo of the product that shows the word 'liqueur' printed on its own label: http://everythingphotos.deviantart.com/art/Fireball-Whisky-204283931. The fact that it is made with whisky does not mean it is not a liqueur. In some markets, the manufacturer seems to want to avoid using the word 'liqueur' for some reason, but it is objectively a liqueur, regardless of whether the manufacturer likes using that word or not. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:13, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
The bottle referenced above is actually the Canadian bottle, the US bottle does not feature "liqueur" in the title- http://www.fireballwhisky.com/. It may create confusion if it is not listed under "Fireball Whisky" which is the actual name of the product. Can it be removed from the title? I am unable to edit the page title here. KSimon NolaZ (talk) 14:05, 30 April 2013 (UTC)KSimon NolaZ
Perhaps the U.S. label doesn't say "liqueur" on it. But that doesn't mean that the product is not a liqueur. It just means that the manufacturer chose not to print that word on the label. The U.S. label says "Whisky with [other stuff]". The proper term for whisky mixed with sweeteners and flavourings is 'liqueur', and the word is even printed on the Canadian label. So it is clearly a liqueur. Whisky is a distilled spirit made from a grain mash. Once you mix whisky with sweeteners and flavourings, the result is not whisky any more – it is a liqueur. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
At first blush, I think it's a liquer. That it is so denominated in at least some of the countries in which it is sold ought to be given some weight. We are not strictly speaking a U.S.-oriented publication. I note the competitive products and the use of flavoring support that interpretation. That it is a Whisky base is also true. It really straddles two different product categories I think. I would caution, however, that all of the foregoing is mere opinion, and is totally unclouded by any other facts or personal experience (tasting) of the product. Of course, the latter would probably be deemed WP:OR. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:04, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I agree it should be called a liquer, because its flavored, based on the common definition of "liquer". oknazevad (talk) 19:47, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Fireball Whiskey is a review that says the resemblance to whisky is only momentary. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:10, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
To the extent that it is a trade name, maybe the article should be renamed as Fireball Whisky (liquer) or even Fireball Cinnamon Whisky (liquer). I am not trying to confuse anyone, and obviously own no stock in this company. Or as Michael Vick might say, "I have no dog in this fight." But it might be more accurate to do it that way. What do you think? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:15, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
As an article name, the "(liqueur)" in the article title would then seem like an unnecessary disambiguation that should be dropped. Unfortunately, Fireball Cinnamon Whisky already exists (now as a redirect) due to the recent creation of a duplicate article. (Moving it would have been appropriate, but not replacing it.) Perhaps there is a way to do a history merge to that name. To me, "Fireball Cinnamon Whisky" would be OK for a title, but not "Fireball Whisky" (since the cinnamon is a fundamental part of the product and its concept and its name – i.e., it is not a brand of whisky, it is a brand of a mixture of whisky with cinnamon and some sweeteners (e.g. high-fructose corn syrup)). —BarrelProof (talk) 22:08, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
There are lots of liqueurs that have a whisky base. The List of liqueurs includes about 25 of them, and it is far from complete – e.g., it doesn't include Jim Beam's Red Stag line. And there are at least some other liqueurs such as Southern Comfort that also have some resemblance to whiskey. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:16, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree that Fireball Cinnamon Whisky would be a more accurate page title for this product. I am not as familiar with the intricacies of Wikipedia, would you look into doing the history merge? Knowing Fireball pretty well from a bar sense, I feel like people will mostly be looking for Fireball Cinnamon Whisky rather than liqueur, though this is obviously accurate as well. KSimon NolaZ (talk) 01:26, 15 May 2013 (UTC) KSimon_NolaZ

It is incorrect to call Fireball Whisky a liqueur. It is flavored but it is a whisky base. This page is the only real thing calling it a liqueur, but there is no real reason to call it a liqueur rather than liquor. —Bermsalot (talk) 19:42, 16 Sept 2016 (UTC)
Again, here is a link to a photo of this product that shows the word 'liqueur' printed on its own label: http://everythingphotos.deviantart.com/art/Fireball-Whisky-204283931. Again, look at the definition of 'liqueur', and you will see that a mixture of a spirit (such as whisky) with sweeteners and flavourings is properly called a liqueur and is not properly called whisky. Whisky is not something that is sweet and syrupy. Having a whisky base does not mean that something is not a liqueur. There are lots of liqueurs that have a whisky base. The List of liqueurs includes about 25 of them, and it is far from complete. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:27, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
I've done some more research and can conclude Fireball is classified as a "whisky with artificial flavors". In the United States the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau has specific labeling requirements for each product and how they are classified. We should defer to the TTB, the regulatory alcohol board, for classification. The TTB classifies a liqueur as being produced from spirits in combination with fruits, flowers, plants, juices, or natural flavors and with the addition of at least 2.5% by weight of certain sugars. Per the TTB Fireball does not meet the definition of a liqueur. They are required by law to be labeled with a truthful statement of composition in this case Fireball is ‘Whisky with artificial flavors”. As 99% of Fireball sales are in the United States we look at the TTB as the governing and deciding factor in classifying this product. "What You Should Know About Distilled Spirits Labels" (PDF). Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau. Retrieved 16 November 2016. Fireball does originate from Canada and the picture provided on this talk page is a Canadian label. Canada classifies alcohol with any sugar content as a liqueur hence the difference in statement of composition. However, this is a US centric product and should reflect the statement of composition designated by the TTB. "Product Specific Information for Liqueur". Canadian Food Inspection Agency. Retrieved 16 November 2016. —Bermsalot (talk) 13:10, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
You say that you have concluded that "Fireball is classified as a 'whisky with artificial flavors'." Can you point to any reliable sources that use that phrase to refer to the product? The sources that you provided above do not say that. (One of them is a dead link.) I also looked at photos of labels, and all I found were photos of labels that said it is "liqueur" or "liqueur blended with cinnamon & whisky" or "whisky with natural cinnamon flavor". Regarding the definition of 'liqueur', I think it is important to consider that the definition used in a law may somewhat differ from the definition in common widespread usage. Few people are familiar with strict legal definitions, and Wikipedia is more concerned with the common usage of a term than with how it is defined in a law. Sometimes there are intentional differences between the definition used for a term in law and the definition of the term used by the general public. It fits the general common usage of the term "liqueur" – e.g., the one provided in the liqueur article. Whether we explicitly use the term "liqueur" or not, I think we should be able to agree that it is "a mixture of whisky, cinnamon flavoring and sweeteners". —BarrelProof (talk) 02:22, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
Hey BP. I can agree with your verbiage "mixture of whisky, cinnamon flavoring and sweeteners". Although we disagree slightly on this matter I like seeing we can come to a mutual place. Let me know which links above are dead because they work on my end - I will update or add another if you have trouble accessing in your region. — bermsalot(talk) 06:33, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv (talk) 10:38, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Fireball (liqueur) → Fireball Cinnamon Whisky – The brand name printed on the label of this product is the proposed name "Fireball Cinnamon Whisky". The proposed name is probably more recognizable to most people than "Fireball (liqueur)", and using that name would avoid the need for parenthetical disambiguation. The proposed name is already a redirect to this page, although it was briefly populated by an article created as a semi-duplicate by an inexperienced editor (from which some non-duplicate content was later merged into the "Fireball (liqueur)" article). BarrelProof (talk) 05:36, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Fireball in the news

You can get very intoxicated, crash your boat, have it confiscated and be arrested if you drink and pilot at the same time. Drinking lots of Fireball and driving (a boat). .36 blood alcohol and driving a boat badly is not a good plan. Zaniewski, Ann (July 9, 2013). "Drunken boater makes smashing entrance into marina, lands in jail". Detroit Free Press. Macomb Township, Michigan. Retrieved July 12, 2013. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:57, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I've seen a few stories on the news lately about how Fireball Cinnamon Whisky fogs thongs 41% faster than other brands of liquor. Perhaps that fact should get its own article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.190.174.107 (talk) 22:45, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Former Branding

This product was formerly branded as Dr. McGillicuddy's Fireball Whisky Shooter, a hot cinnamon flavoured corn whiskey. It was (and still is) produced and bottled in Quebec, Canada, and distributed by the Sazerac Company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.100.254.154 (talk) 20:52, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

All true and noted in the article. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:39, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Fireball Cinnamon Whisky

I've seen lots of editors who dislike various lyric sites. Sometimes it is WP:RS and sometimes it is WP:copyright and sometimes it is WP:linkspam objections. All of those exist. Notwithstanding this being the wikipedia equivalent of How many angels can dance on the head of a pin, trying to find a source of any kind that details the wording of a lyric is always problematical. And it doesn't change the factual accuracy at all. So I understand your concerns, but note that we actually do have a source, albeit perhaps not the best. If you eliminate those kinds of references, then you are left with references to the liner notes (which probably aren't on line) or to the record itself. And then someone says that it is WP:OR, and that it needs a WP:RS. You get the idea. I actually thought I've made a number of substantial contributions to this article, and that the whole cinnamon liquor phenomena should be developed. In passing, the group we are talking about also referenced Goldschlagger in their lyrics, so it is part of the culture. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:03, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

The above comment was a reaction to an edit that I made, partly because my edit summary may not have been very clear. I don't actually have any complaint about the reference to the lyrics, although I think it's not entirely clear that the lyric is referring to this particular branded product. (Some additional follow-up discussion can be found at User talk:BarrelProof#Fireball Cinnamon Whisky.) —BarrelProof (talk) 17:43, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Attribution

One footnote in Fireball Cinnamon Whisky is reworked text from Coumarin article. Please do not remove this. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 22:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

A portion of the text and sources from this article was added to Cinnamon article. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
A portion of the text and sources from this article was added to SinFire Cinnamon Whisky. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:52, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Recipes

I note in the history that this stuff was there and its gone now. Lots of other articles have similar material. We need to have a mixologist with a proper book tweak this up.

  • Tennessee Apple: Fireball Cinnamon Whisky, Apple Schnapps and Cranberry Juice
  • Angryballs: Fireball Cinnamon Whisky and Angry Orchard Hard Apple Cider®
  • Hot Apple Sauce: Fireball Cinnamon Whisky and Pineapple Juice
  • Fire & Ice: Fireball Cinnamon Whisky and Dr. McGillicuddy’s Mint Liqueur
  • Dragon’s Kiss: Fireball Cinnamon Whisky and Cranberry Juice

I am not putting this in, as we need a WP:RS like Old Mr. Boston for it. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 00:20, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Spelling

Flavor or Flavour? Color or Colour? I think it should be the former, as this is an American product. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:58, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

That's kind of a tough question. It's a product of a company that's headquartered in the U.S. and it is highly prominent and heavily marketed in the U.S., but it's a product that originated in Canada and is made with Canadian whisky. And its label uses "whisky" rather than "whiskey". Canadian English generally prefers "whisky", "colour", and "flavour" rather than "whiskey", "color", and "flavor". But its label, as shown on the official website (when viewed from a US IP address) also uses "flavor" rather than "flavour". Also, the website FAQ responds to "Where does Fireball come from?" with "... those hearts happen to reside in the US and Canada" (listing the US first!). They respond to "Why is the 'whisky' in your name spelled without an 'E'?" with "Fireball Cinnamon Whisky traces its roots back to the cold land of Canada, where 'whisky' is spelled without the letter E and people ride 'toboggans' instead of sleds. Strange place." (emphasis added), which seems to indicate that although they say it had its "roots" in Canada, it's not especially closely associated with Canada anymore (especially by commenting that Canada is a "strange place", and thus a place they suggest as not very closely associated with the product currently). I personally suggest that we follow what the manufacturer seems to be doing and use "whisky" and "flavor", and thus presumably "color". I have the impression that "flavor" and "color" are reasonably acceptable in Candadian English, although not the dominant usage in Canada generally. To U.S. eyes, "flavour" and "colour" are distinctly foreign looking, while "whisky" is acceptable and is used on some U.S. products. This is presumably why the manufacturer uses "flavor" on the label (at least in the U.S., where most of the product seems to be sold). —BarrelProof (talk) 17:44, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
You've made many good points. One could plausibly do either. On balance I think flavor and color. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:03, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I went through most of the related products section and looked at the citations. None of them had Fireball Whisky mentions, rather there were links to company websites, and a few blog posts talking about cinnamon as a flavoring agent. I went into a virtual reality page and went to see if they approved of related products section (relating Vive to Oculus) and the consensus there was it was an unnecessary section. I believe most of the section was products trying to help their Search Engine relevancy by associating with an established alcohol. —bermsalot (talk) 19:43, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

@Bermsalot: While I can't say for sure that you're right about why that text is there, I do agree that it's almost all useless. At best, it's people just adding stuff with sources that either don't mention Fireball or mention it because they want to be considered alternatives, and at worst, yep, it's the producers themselves advertising their stuff and gaming Google. There might be a few obviously similar products but come on. Prose like "A new offering is Becherovka, which is touted as a replacement" is not being added in good faith. RunnyAmiga ※ talk 19:58, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
In my view, the mere fact that some other articles don't have a similar section doesn't mean that this article shouldn't. I won't necessarily argue that the whole section is great and well sourced, but I don't see anything wrong per se with the idea of having a section that compares the product to other similar products. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:36, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
bermsalot, your unwarranted speculation on why the listing off similar cinnamon-flavored products is off mark.
I agree with BarrelProof that the section is useful to our readers. WP:Not paper would apply.
I note that this article regularly receives an extraordinary number of views and in that sense its utility is implicit. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:25, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
I’ve been struggling with the similar products section as featured on this page. It is really not here in good faith. 1) No other alcohol brand has this section and if they did we would have to simultaneously update similar products for each flavoring agent and each upcoming product on the market. 2) some of these products are not whiskey, so the only similarity they have is the utilization of some type of cinnamon flavoring. Cinnamon is very common so this opens up ‘similar products’ to anything. 3) This section seems a target for black hat SEO techniques in such that brands are linking to their products to capitalize on Fireball’s popularity.

I propose we add a link to flavored liquors (if we must) which I have updated to include cinnamon liquors. This page feels more appropriate as it is a collection of liquor brands with flavoring agents, rather than a single product page.

Another suggestion is we create a stand-alone page for cinnamon flavored liquor. I’ve started a draft if we want to go down that road.

See below, as I’ve gone through the list of similar products. Many do not have citations and are made with a very different base. The only distinguishable similarity is the use of cinnamon. I feel if we define similar by one flavoring agent then nearly every page would have links to multiple brands.

More details:

  • Red Stag and Kentucky Fire - these products are bourbon based. There is no mention of Fireball Whisky on their product pages.
  • Tennessee Fire - this is definitely a similar product to Fireball. I would think if we include TN fire on this page then we would need to include a similar products section about Fireball on the TN Fire page.
  • DeKyper Hot Damn - no citation for this product. I looked it up and it is a schnapps not a whiskey
  • Goldschlager - this is a schnapps and not a whiskey, no citation.
  • Gold Strike cinnamon liqueur - no citation for this product, also a schnapps.
  • Rakomelo - this is a dead link which goes to a Russian landing page. Seems to me they were trying to capitalize on Fireball popularity.
  • Smirnoff Cinna-Sugar Twist - this is a vodka, not whiskey, citation is dead. Product seems more akin to a cinnabon not a shooter.
  • Cinnabon Vodka - vodka base, one citation does not work, second citation just is a brief mention about the product. no mention of Fireball on the citation.
  • Stoli Zinamom Vodka - vodka base. The first citation goes to a listings page with mentions of possible recipes. There is no brand information, ingredients, or mention of Fireball. The second citation talks about a Latvian release of Stoli vodka flavors. This has no relevance to Fireball. The only mention of cinnamon is a product they released in 1996?
  • Chila Orchata Cinnamon Cream Rum - this product is a rum base, not whiskey. This is also a dairy flavored type of product not resembling Fireball, except for the mention of cinnamon. The citation is an out of stock purchasing link with no mention of Fireball. The second link goes to the product home page, with no mention of Fireball.
  • Peligroso Cinnamon Tequila - this product has a tequila base, not whiskey. The mention of 100% blue agave is a sales phrase and doesn’t belong on this page. The link has no mention of Fireball and is just a product launch release.
  • Hot Rose - this is a tequila base, the product is also dairy inspired whereas Fireball is certainly not. Again, there are sales phrases here talking about product packaging. This really does not belong on Fireball’s page but should be on their own page. The citation has absolutely no mention of Fireball but discusses a cream liqueur.
  • Jose Cuervo Cinge - product is a tequila base, not whiskey. One citation discusses a $10 million ad campaign but no mention of Fireball, just the ad agency. This citation reads more of a an advertisement for the ad agency. Citation two discusses assorted flavored tequilas with one sentence mentioning Fireball. Citation three is a review of the tequila product saying it was launched as a marketing tactic to compete with Fireball.
  • Becherovka - citation is Thrillist article where bartenders talk about what could be the next ‘Fireball’ as in the next big thing. Should every brand who gets mentioned as wanting to be the next Fireball deserve a place on the Fireball page? This should be a place to learn about Fireball. —bermsalot (talk) 15:12, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

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