Talk:Finno-Volgaic languages

Old talk

Finno-Volgaic languages vs. Volga-Finnic languages

26 returns on Finno-Volgaic @ google scholar and 26 @ google books

55 returns on Volga-Finnic @ google scholar and 176 returns @ google books

And the winner is Volga-Finnic, also since Volga-Finnic is in sync with Baltic-Finnic the article should be renamed.--Termer (talk) 20:50, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, go ahead and do it ;) Druworos (talk) 18:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Done! Khoikhoi 02:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

• To: Dbachmann. Certainly one could argue that Finno-Volgaic languages are not synonyms with Volga Finnic languages although it's not difficult to come up with sources that don't think so: [1]The main difference between terms Finno-Volgaic and Volga-Finnic would be that the first one refers to the group in historic sense. It takes us back to 2000 BC when Finno-Permic languages split into Permic and Finno-Volgaic languages. [2] Another way to look at it would be the modern times where there are alive spoken Volga-Finnic languages.

Now, the point of renaming the article into Volga-Finnic was that according to the evidence above the latter use is much more common nowadays. Please Dbachmann let people know what are your plans regarding the article here. Would you like to keep this as Finno-Volgaic and concentrate on the historic split here that explains how the languages envolved over time and make another one that speaks of modern Volga-Finnic languages - Mari/Cheremis language and Mordvinic languages? Thanks!

PS. also the term Finnic languages is used as synonymous with Finno-Permic languages only in historic sense. It has been based on a earlier belief that Permic languages are closer to Finnish than to Hungarian [3] Nowadays Finnic languages most often refer to either both Baltic-Finnic and Volga-Finnig or sometimes even just Baltic-Finnic langaues only. In any case we'd need to come up with a system how to organize it on WP. If it was up to me, I'd keep it self explanatory. Meaning Finno-Permic splits into Finnic and Permic languages. Finnic into Baltic-Finnic and Volga-Finnic etc.--Termer (talk) 17:28, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

*w-loss

Now cited potentially in support of Finno-Lappic. This may be a question of differing scholarly interpretations, but it probably needs verification if this is after all the supposed "one shared sound change" (alleged to by Salminen) shared by Finno-Volgaic. (It is reflected in the data, cf. eg. [4], but this does not preclude that the reference is to something else.)--Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 15:43, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Finno-Volgaic or Fenno-Volgaic is a defunct hypothesis

one of the sources provided in related articles clearly spells out The highest-level branches in the binary classification, Finno-Volgaic, Finno-Permian, and Finno-Ugrian, have not been subject to much debate. So what's up with this on wikipeida? Is someone mixing up Finno-Volgaic with Volga-Finnic AKA Volgaic again?...the latter may be considered somewhat obsolete mostly due to Mordvinic languages gaining it's own group in the tree.--Termer (talk) 05:53, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I would gather it's confusion with Volgaic. AFAI've been able to tell, FV still has some currency, even if recent works have pointed more strongly towards a Finno-Samic-Mordvinic core with Mari as a possible outlier. --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 08:23, 30 May 2011 (UTC)