Talk:Finn the Human/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Premeditated Chaos (talk · contribs) 03:37, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Nostalgia makes it impossible for me to skip this one. I'll get it reviewed over my night shifts hopefully - couple days. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:37, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

The last review was fairly thorough, so hopefully this one will be less stringent.

Lead

• "Throughout the series, the unknown identity of Finn's biological parents and his status as the last human left in Ooo." - not a sentence Y
• Not sure Fionna needs two full sentences in the lead, but I'm not gonna die on that hill. Y
• Could "gender-swapped" link to genderbend for context? Y
• Shouldn't the lead mention that Finn also featured in some of the Adventure Time: Distant Lands specials? Y

Thanks for starting this review! I fixed the first sentence and edited the lead for the other suggestions so far. BuySomeApples (talk) 23:54, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Creation and design

• "Ward's inspiration for many of Finn and Jake the Dog's adventures came from his childhood, which he described as being the opposite." This is worded a bit awkwardly, and also, in what way was it "the opposite"? Y
• "However, this was changed to having them live in a permanent home at Cartoon Network's request." Does it say why? It's such an odd request. Y

• The RS article doesn't actually say why. A lot of cartoons are forced to add fun clubhouse/school/home settings to sell toys, but I don't want to add this without a source. If it's not for recognizable merch, I have no idea why they'd ask. The full quote is this: "he had to make a few changes to please executives there, such as giving Finn and Jake a home instead of making them wanderers living in tents as he’d originally intended."

• Okay, no problem, if it isn't in the source, it isn't in the source. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:28, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

• The last two sentences of paragraph 2, about Bueno the Bear, aren't clearly related to the rest of the paragraph, which is about the character's first appearance in the original short. If the Bueno resemblance is specific to the original short, that should be stated explicitly. Otherwise, it should be moved. Y
• The whole section is so heavy on detail about the voice acting I wonder if the title shouldn't be changed to something like "Design and voice acting" Y
• Paragraphs 4 and 5 feel a bit repetitive/jumbled, in that they're both about Finn maturing and how that took the show to a more complex place. I think maybe the sentences at the beginning of 4 about Shada's voice maturing could be moved to the previous paragraph, and then you could combine what's left of 4 with 5, giving you a single larger paragraph about the story maturing over time.Y
• Speaking of which, let's link voice change Y
• Para 6 is a bit the same, the thing about the adventures starting out simple and meaningless is a bit repetitive of the good vs. evil sentence from para 4. You could probably incorporate that whole paragraph into earlier ones.Y
• Why no content about Finn's visual design? His appearance is so simple but so distinct, you think there'd be some content about it in sources. Y

• You'd think so! I haven't been able to find any articles that cover this or even comment on it with specifics. There are books about Adventure Time's art but they all seem VERY pricy and like they're only available on hardback. I'm working on finding a preview of some books or digging up articles to expand that. BuySomeApples (talk) 22:41, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

• Have you tried archive.org or other book hosting sites? If you can't get anything, no worries - GA doesn't expect FA levels of comprehensiveness. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:36, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

• I did, I even tried some Russian ones but no dice. I was able to scrape some information from old articles and guides from Pendleton Ward which is something at least. BuySomeApples (talk) 23:19, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Appearances

• I've taken the liberty of merging a few skinny paragraphs here
• "...imprisoned in the Citadel" - any context on what the Citadel is, even briefly? Y
• 2-part should be "two-part" Y
• Ref 28 doesn't support the content about the grass arm, since it's a review for an episode prior to the arm turning into grass. We need a ref from The Comet or later, since that appears to be when the arm first turned into grass. Y

• The ref does mention it further down, Breezy is the episode where his hand grows back. I messed up by calling it a grass arm, when really it's a normal arm with a little blade of grass in the palm. Here's what the source says about it "[he] sprout[s] a giant tree from his right arm socket. The wood chips away and under it is a brand new hand." and "Finn grows a new arm this week, but it looks like there’s a little green sprout growing out of his palm". BuySomeApples (talk) 04:23, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

• Okay, I think it was the "grass arm" thing that had me confused (I could have sworn Finn had an actual arm made of grass for a bit but idk). Ref makes sense with the content now. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:10, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

• Link foil (narrative) Y
• "the miniseries Islands" - can we get some context as to where Islands sits in relation to the rest of the series? Is it within another season? Its own mini-season? Y
• Link gender-swapped to genderbend again Y
• The "Others" section feels odd. You have one sentence about Finn appearing in other media, then the rest of it is entirely about Fionna. Either it needs more content about Finn's other appearances (what about the crossover into Futurama, for example?), or that sentence should be removed and the section should just be about Fionna. Y

• Working on this section now, I don't want it to be too indiscriminate so I'm including the most iconic examples. BuySomeApples (talk) 04:23, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

• Looks good. I saw an IP added some cruft about Lego Dimensions, so I removed it and added a ref to justify mentioning the game. Feel free to remove it though if you don't feel it's iconic/significant enough. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:10, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Characteristics

• "essentially knightly" Can we expand on this? Maybe link to knight-errant, which is the literary archetype being referenced. Y
• "...suggesting he is both maturing and developing..." isn't this explicit rather than suggested, per the content in the Creation and design section? Y
• Hair and a hat are not personality traits; these sentences should go up into Creation and design. Y
• The Adventure Time Encyclopedia appears to be written in an in-universe perspective; I'm not sure we should be citing it. Y
• Game Boy is a proper noun, but BMO isn't really a Game Boy anyway (too big/wide, and the buttons are wrong). Handheld game console might be a better descriptor/link. Y
• Para 5 and para 6 under Relationships feel like they're out of order. Logically, we should talk about his relationship with his dad before talking about being disappointed by his dad Y
• The Minerva paragraph feels repetitive as it's a near-rehash of the paragraph about Minerva under Appearances - is there any content it could be expanded with? Critical reactions to their relationship maybe? Y

• I took this section out and replaced it with analysis / critical responses to their relationship. I also added three sentences to Finn's origins for context. BuySomeApples (talk) 09:03, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• Looks much better to me - I love that we get some critical analysis about it here. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:18, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Reception etc

• "received a positive reception" is redundant Y
• Is there any expansion on the Harry Potter comparisons? Specific points of similarity, for example? Y
• "Finn's story arc ... praised by critics." Except you only cite one critic here. I think you need more. Y
• I think this section needs a lot of reorganization. Para 1 goes from positive reception to comparisons to another character and then back to critical reception. Para 2 goes back to positive reception of another narrative arc, then back to a literary comparison. Para 3 is short and composed of a pair of positive critical quotes. Then Para 4 is another fairly short paragraph on the fan response to Finn. The info in the caption belongs in the body; captions should describe the image. We're all over the place. Y
• I haven't checked all the refs yet, but as I mentioned, the AT Encyclopedia is in-universe and shouldn't be cited. Y
• McDonnell is in the bibliography but doesn't appear to be cited anywhere. Y

• I think it was added to the bibliography before I started, but I want to use it for Finn's design. If I can't find it online I'll leave it out. BuySomeApples (talk) 22:41, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

• Removed it because I don't think I'll be getting to read it anytime soon. BuySomeApples (talk) 23:19, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

• Commons has some neat pictures of Finn appearing as advertising, both officially as in File:台灣高鐵-卡通造型列車停靠於桃園站南下月台.JPG and unofficially as in File:Every Adventure Begins With THINK (9960058256).jpg; these might be useful for the "Other appearances" and fan response sections. Y

Okay, I know I said this wasn't going to be as in-depth, but c'est la vie. I'm flexible on suggestions if you disagree and can articulate why it shouldn't be changed. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:24, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

@Premeditated Chaos: Thanks for taking the time to go in-depth with this! I'm going to start editing the article based on this review, but it might be a bit of a slow go this week because winter break is over and I'm back to the mines. BuySomeApples (talk) 07:27, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• OK I think I finally got all these @Premeditated Chaos: BuySomeApples (talk) 09:03, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• Sorry for the delay! Basically everything looks good. The last nitpick I have is that McDonnell is still not cited, so shouldn't be in the bibliography. Same for Olson. A "Further Reading" section would be fine to stick both in, I think? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:18, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

• Thank you for adding them to that section @Premeditated Chaos:!! I notice someone else added Lego Dimensions, so that's awesome. BuySomeApples (talk) 02:45, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

• Looks like an IP did it actually! Thanks, random anon :) Anyway, we're good to roll here. Marked as a pass! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:13, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

• Mathematical! BuySomeApples (talk) 07:18, 13 February 2022 (UTC)