Talk:Finished Work Pentecostalism

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Clarification: Higher Life vs. Finished Work (vs. Holiness)

First, the article is off to a good start. Second, "popular piety" is referenced. What is this? Is this a group of people or a doctrinal position? Third, at the end of the article, which "perspective" is being referred to - Finished Work or Wesleyan Holiness?

Also, I am confused as to whether Finished Work and Higher Life or the same or similar, or is Higher Life more closer to the Wesleyan Holiness view? The Pentecostalism article states in the introduction "Higher Life, (also known as 'Baptistic' or 'Finished Work' Pentecostals)". Can this be clarified in that article's introduction? Also, the Pentecostalism article seems to contradict itself. In the Holiness and Higher Life Pentecostalism section it says "The Wesleyan-Holiness orientation was the universal position in the early days of Pentecostalism espousing a three-fold process of conversion, progressive sanctification, and baptism in the Holy Spirit.[7]" but later in the Finished Work section it says "as sanctification is viewed as progressive rather than instantaneous." So which position believes in progressive sanctification and if both do than what is the difference between them? I'll add this to the Pentecostalism talk page also. Thanks. Ltwin (talk) 04:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Higher Life and Finished Work are completely unrelated things, they are even direct opposites. Higher Life has more in common with Holiness Pentecostalism than it does with Finished Work Pentecostalism.

Finished Work Pentecostal theology is related to Pentecostals who hold a more Baptist-like theology when it comes to Christian perfection (i.e. not accepting the concept of entire sanctification/second work of grace) as opposed to Holiness Pentecostal theology which is held by Pentecostals who hold a more Methodist (Wesleyan-Holiness)-like theology around the topic of Christian perfection (i.e. support the concept of entire sanctification/second work of grace). Higher Life is related to Reformed and Calvinist Evangelical denominations and movements of non-Pentecostal, non-Methodist, and non-Arminian origin adopting a Methodist-in-origin Holiness (entire sanctification/second work of grace) theology without adopting the Arminian soteriology that permeates in the Methodist/Wesleyan-Holiness tradition. Higher Life is just Wesleyan-Holiness theology without the Arminianism; some within the Higher Life movement eventually become Keswickian Reformed Charismatics (i.e./e.g. think of it like Holiness Pentecostalism-lite with out Arminianism, initial evidence, and maintaining a Calvinist soteriology ). Check out the sources that were citied before the revert and checkout the individual Wikipedia pages for Higher Life movement, Finished Work, and Holiness Pentecostalism if you need more clarification; if you want to fact check them look at the sources listed on all three pages too. I will fix the article now on Finished Work bringing back most of the content deleted in the last major revert (the information was properly citied so it won't be bringing up any problems around citing good sources). 66.44.115.210 (talk) 00:15, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You will keep in mind that I am largely the author of the articles regarding Holiness Pentecostalism, the Higher life movement, and Wesleyan-Arminian theology. Despite the fact that you have been repeatedly blocked for sockpuppetry, I have not interfered with the vast majority of your edits. However, if you continue to add the WP:UNDUE and misleading term "Baptistic Pentecostal" to this article, I will have no choice but to do so. Baptists have different views on sanctification given that there are General Baptists (who adhere to Arminian theology), Particular Baptists (who adhere to Calvinist theology), and Independent Baptists (most of who adhere to Free Grace theology). It is very confusing to readers that you try to align Finished Work Pentecostalism with Baptists, when I have shown that different branches of Baptists have differing views on sanctification. Anupam^Talk 00:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Question: how to flag this article?

(I'm a longtime WP:er but not all that sophisticated and want to avoid tagging/flagging this article incorrectly, so thought posting this on Talk page might be best.) Unless one is deeply steeped in not just Christianity, or even Christian theological terminology, the entire 1st paragraph is likelyutterly incomprehensible to virtually anyone outside of that sphere. Frankly, I think the article title should have some disambiguation, as "Finished Work" probably needs context that it's a theological/Christian term -- otherwise, what: a painting or symphony? I don't know what the "WP:___" guidelines are to cite, here - but I'm pretty sure that there's at least one (if not several) where having a lede para that's impenetrable to say 90% of the general public due to highly-specialized vocabulary is not how an encyclopedia is supposed to work. I'm guessing to start with something where "this article needs work" shows up, but would like some help rather than just flagging it willy-nilly, and hope folks understand that asking for guidance is probably BETTER than just trying something and getting it wrong. :-)

A Doon (talk) 16:38, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]