Talk:Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Can somebody please explain this?

At certain points in the film, (especially in the scene where Tifa and Cloud are unconscious in the church) I have noticed a gray wolf-like creature appear(possibly in the same species as Red XIII). What it is, or why it is there, is not explained in the film. So I scour FF7 and AC articles on wikipedia and no clue is given as to its identity. Can somebody clear this up for me? 4p0s7l3

-They explain this in the trivia section but here its a little bit shorter explaination: During the course of the film, there are three very distinct references to Cloud's "lone wolf" status: When Tifa first calls him, there is a lone wolf standing near the implanted sword. When Cloud passes out next to Tifa shortly after finding her in the church, there is a wolf standing in the flowers a few feet away on the overhead shot. The wolf also appears at the end of the scene in the Forgotten City, standing by the lake where Aerith's body rests. Finally, during the white light/death scene, a wolf walks up to the unconscious Cloud. It was stated in the Advent Children Reunion Files production book that the wolf, known as the "Cloudy Wolf," represents the deepest part in Cloud's psyche, and appears in response to some burden he is carrying, as well represent him being a "lone wolf" since he seemingly severed himself from his friends and family. The areas the wolf appears in are likely related to whichever of Cloud's burdens it has appeared in response to. Incidentally, several items of Cloud's seem to resemble, or are based off of, wolves: His earrings, actually match the wolf-head pendant on Cloud's shoulder pad, as does his signature ring which is seen on Tifa's right hand, Barret's left hand, and on a necklace worn by Denzel. Also, his motorbike is named after the wolf of Norse Mythology, Fenrir, which is also a summon monster in other Final Fantasy titles. J-Axe

I could swear that that tidbit wasn't in the trivia section before, but I may not be the most perceptive person on Earth. Anyway, Thanks a lot! 4p0s713

Link

The #4 reference link for the Madien who travels the planet on xhost is not longer available. I think the web address has changed. J-Axe

Split Blade Beam?!

I've seen the movie and the final battle. There is no way that, he did a "split Blade Beam". When Cloud did blade beam earlier in the movie, he had a blue aura around his sword. In the final battle with Sephiroth, he did a spash down which look like Braver. I, then, played it in slow motion. A beam didn't come out of the sword. The sword hit the ground and the force of the impact made the dents and whatnot. Thus it was Braver. In the movie, some of the Limit Breaks are hard to identify, so I can understand how someone could make that mistake. Ryu Ematsu

By the same token, he had a blue aura around his sword when he performed Braver against Bahamut SIN. However, in the original FFVII, Blade Beam can and will split when used against multiple foes, so it is a capability of the attack. Ryu Kaze 20:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I forgot all about that. But it still looked more like Braver. Blade Beam actally had a beam come out of the sword. The move he did on Sephiroth didn't have a beam. Ryu Ematsu

Actually, it does. Watch it frame-by-frame and you can clearly see the blue energy waves. Ryu Kaze 15:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it was a combination attack.

Is the rain Aerith's limit break?

Hey people, does anyone know if the rain that starts to fall in Aerith's church is the same as aerith's limit break, of which I have forgotten the name? I don't think there is any reference made to it within the movie, but it could at least be interesting - I know it is to me - but on the other hand it could have no place in this particular article. I'll leave it for discussion/speculation... --Groovemaster D. 12:10, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, wasn't looking very good and found a reference to the limi break already. My bad. --Groovemaster D. 13:30, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Cloud and Tifa, married or not?

Does anyone know if Cloud and tifa are married? It seems to be implied within the movie when Tifa and Cloud are sitting in the room after they've awakened from being unconscious due to their wounds. The camera zooms in on Tifa's hand and, if my memory is correct, she had a ring on her ringfinger. I also seem to recall, although this as well could be mistaken, the dialogue implying that the two of them are at the very least in a close relationship, be it due to their working together, taken care of Denzel and Marlene together or a marriage. --Groovemaster D. 12:53, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Even if sufficient fancruft existed to prove they were married, which there's not, the article wouldn't benefit from it due to the NPOV policy. Interesting thought, though. ~ Hibana 01:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

How exactly is that NPOV? --Dr.Worm 19:21, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

They are not exactly married. If anyone listened to the flashbacks occuring in Cloud's mind as he is going to the Temple of the Ancients, on one part, Tifa will comment on how they are not a real family, so that basicilly means their relationship hasen't deepened yet.

It seems to me that Tifa has undergone breast reduction surgery compared to the FFVII game.--Dr.Worm 19:21, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

They are married as seen with the ring on Tifa's finger ... sorry to everyone who supposedly missed the frame when Tifa was arguing with Cloud —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.107.113.55 (talk) 22:15, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Story

I highly recommend condensing it by at least 35-40 percent. Deckiller 04:24, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I could not agree more. I am working on it as we speak. --Megan 17:01, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I personally would recommend condensing it even further once the film's released in English-speaking countries -- like to two or three small paragraphs. There's good material in there, but the question has to be asked: Just how much is that going to matter once the film's released in the rest of the NTSC countries and the PAL countries? An even better reason to condense it is that we don't have 10 page summaries of the Final Fantasy games themselves (though Cloud's article sure takes a stab at it), or of other movies, and it's extremely non-encyclopedic to do this.

The only reason I haven't tried doing it myself is because there's a lot of people who can read English but don't have access to seeing the film right now, so this lets them know what went on in it. That's why I suggested waiting until after the film gets it US/European/Australian release. Last Order's page is also like this, but I actually think it should be left alone, considering that it's not even going to get a release outside Japan -- and that only 77,777 copies of it were made, meaning not even all the Japanese fans got a shot at it. Advent Children, though, definitely needs to be trimmed in a couple of months. I'll take care of it myself when the time comes.

Above all, it needs to be trimmed by that time, because if it isn't, there's just going to be weeks of editing false information out of the summary due to people who didn't understand the movie, which is exactly what's had to be done here on this page since September as it is. Ryu Kaze 20:45, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I've divided the synopsis into five parts (prologue, first, second, third act, epilogue) based on what I feel to be the major divisions in the film. I've put each of these in quotations as it is based on my opinion and is in no way official. I also feel that the description of battles in this synopsis is excessive and could be more succint. I'll be making changes shortly. Flooch 01:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Holy crap. It might be easier to revert to an earlier (and shorter) version of the plot summary and editing that instead. Flooch 07:19, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

You actually did very well, so pat yourself on the back. There were a few bits of missing critical plot info, and the wording needed to be heavily tightened in some areas (mainly things dealing with presentation and sentence breaks), but I've seen to all that -- and added what I feel are more logical "act" breaks -- and it all came together really well. I applaud you. I'd been wanting to do it, but wasn't ready to take it on myself. It was far easier once someone had the gears in motion. Great job.

You can check the changes I've made here. Again, great job. Ryu Kaze 21:09, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I've made a sweep of the whole thing, and it's extremely good right now. We need to the same thing over at the Last Order page, though. I'll probably take care of that. Kudos once again. Ryu Kaze 21:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Ryu, it's a great improvement. As wikipedia articles go, the plot summary is still a little excessive, but it'll have to do for now. I haven't seen Last Order, so I'd only be able to help with copyediting. Thanks ^_^ Flooch 21:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome and thanks. I'll get to the Last Order page tomorrow. Again, great job. Ryu Kaze 02:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

We'll have to condense the page more later (after the NA and European release) to a plot summary instead of a story summary, but for now, this is appropriate, I think. I'm loath to prevent those who can't yet see the film of knowing what happens, which is why I think we should leave as much detail in as we currently have (but only that much detail). Once the NA and PAL releases come, however, it needs to be shortened as as the Last Order page has now been. Ryu Kaze 17:21, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, I think we can still touch on the beginning-to-end nature of the film, but we don't need to go into describing the events so much as we need to just say that they happened, touching on the highlights and getting to the end. Ryu Kaze 13:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Since no one's objected after all this time, I assume everyone's okay with this getting a trim now that the film is available the world over. I'll be carrying it out some time today. Ryu Kaze 20:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

SO whaat, now there's NO story section at all?

I think it's just a fluke.

I don't understand the cellphone scene when Could's cell phone falls into the water and all his messages are being said at one time because after all of that Aerith talks which I don't get either.Basicially I don't get that whole thing with cell phone in to water.HELP??MemoriesOfThePast2, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Clone names and Meanings?

Often the names of characters in AC and FF7 have a meaning behind them, i.e. Sephiroth - Tree of Life, Fallen leader angel of the Sephira, etc. Anyone know the meaning behind Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo? I've heard of a band or group of singers named Yazoo, and I think it's a type of flower, but I'm not sure.

They are not clones of Sephiroth, they are Sephiroth's spirit, divided into 3 entities.

Their "remnants" but they may be clones as cloud calls him a puppet, which kadaj counters is what cloud once was, this implies that they are the same cloud was experimented on using jenova cells and was able to be controlled by sephiroth so maybe kadaj is either a clone or someone who was experimented on. But still i dont know the meaning i'll look it up

On the advent children website it is said that they are three different aspects of sephiroths personality. Kadaj is sephiroths cruel side, Loz is his physical side and Yazoo is his allure. So they have his spirit divided into them but that doesn't mean that they are not clones. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.65.158.13 (talk) 13:28, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

meaning

Well I can tell you the meaning of Bahamut an I cant give you the details yoll have to search that on your own iam to sleepsy right now so ill just say this Bahamut is an Islamic Gaint Sea Creature which is supposed to be larger then anything else it is said that when even a man looks upon it he would faint as his senses would be overloaded from the sight of the creature.

But *yawn* thats all I was able to put out lookk yourself youll get interesting results *yawn* good night

--Marduk of babylon

ex-SOLDIER?

The article states and follows an ex-soldier named Cloud Strife, but I was under the impression that Cloud was actually never in SOLDIER. Did I miss something? Unless the article is not referring to the group, and is using a generic term. That would be confusing, I'd think.

Cloud WAS in SOLDIER, he just never made it to SOLDIER First Class. Shinra's entire militant body was called SOLDIER and the standard troops wore the blue uniforms which Cloud wears when he visits Nibelheim prior to it's buring. SOLDIER First Class (Sephiroth, Zack, and who Cloud thought he was) were the ones that dressed differently and used swords. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.29.69.9 (talk • contribs).

Actually, I'm fairly sure this is incorrect. In the game, you fight enemies called "SOLDIER third class" which wield swords and appear very similar to the "SOLDIER first class" enemies you fight later on. This indicates that use of a sword (and accompanying magical abilities) are the hallmark of all members of SOLDIER, not simply based on class. The enemy names for the blue-suit guys were typically things like "MP" and "Shinra Trooper" and suchlike, not in allcaps.

Of course this is all speculation, but it seems likely that SOLDIER is in fact an elite subset *within* the Shinra military; remember that it is explained very early in FFVII that all members of SOLDIER are infused with Jenova cells as part of their conditioning. I can't imagine Shinra infusing every single blue-suit guy you see with Jenova cells, or that they would remain so weak afterwards (the MP's at the first combat scene have less than 40 hp!). So basic troopers are examined, tested, and the highest-qualified are promoted into SOLDIER and only then are they conditioned with Jenova cells.

At the time of the Niblheim Incident, Cloud was just a Shinra Trooper, basic issue. It was only after he and Zack were captured and stuck in the tubes under the Shinra Mansion (presumably by Hojo) that he was experimented on and infused with Jenova cells. (Or, possibly, he was infested by Jenova when he was wounded by Sephiroth in their final confrontation at Niblheim.) At least, this is my understanding from playing through FFVII 15+ times.  ;) Kasreyn (talk) 14:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, cloud is presented as an ex-SOLDIER at the start of the game. This turns out not to be true, but having this article dive straight in the his 'corrected' background may be somehwat confusing for readers. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 18:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

In the movie he says himself that he believed himself to be an ex-Soldier, so really it would probably be best not to say he was an ex-Soldier at the beginning of this article which may even confuse people more.

How would it be confusing? If someone is in a position to be confused by it(in this case the only way that could happen is if they never played FFVII), then why are they reading this article? It'd be like watching Return of the Jedi without ever having seen Star Wars or Empire Strikes Back...they're responsible for not knowing the material built upon in the earlier works. Anyone who finds FFVII spoiled in any way, or finds themselves confused about Advent Children due to lack of familiarity with the game deserves what they get. Nezu Chiza 17:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

More than likely this was done as to not spoil the events of Final Fantasy VII which it is explained away in the Reminisce of Final Fantasy 7. I believe it is relevantCharlieP216 20:00, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

If someone watches the movie, then they have to have played the game to understand it. And, if they played the game, then they would know that Cloud wasn't in SOLIDER. It should state that he wasn't in SOLIDER.

I agree. It should be made in a way that will hopefully eleminate any confusion, but is also true to the series. 75.10.99.203

In the film cloud says that hes only a ex-SOLDIER in his head and Rufus says "The SOLDIER you once claimed to be" so if people don't know that he wasn't in SOLDIER from this then they won't notice the mistake being made in the first place. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.65.158.13 (talk) 13:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

just a warning SPOILER ALERT! alright first of all Cloud is/was a SOLDIER before the game starts. if you remember he was with Zack and Sephiroth at the NIbelhiem incident and was the one who stabbed and mortally wounded Sephiroth. that being said he was a grunt, not a First Class because he took those memories from Zack. bottom line he was in SOLDIER he just didn't get very far up the ladder. 65.124.8.131 15:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. Actually in Crisis Core, Final Fantasy VII, Cloud never really managed to become SOLDIER. He just became a pawn for the Shinra, an infantryman. He never really managed to become part of SOLDIER, just part of the Shinra... That's one of his reasons for hiding his face when he reached Nibelheim, his home town.--VIIse7en (talk) 05:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

OK I only played the game once (and loved it, it sparked my love for every other FF game except X2), so I am not an expert but i thought that cloud never livec in Nibelheim! Did he not take these memories from another person that he met (and who new Tifa)? Was this not the reason that she took him in when she found him at the train yard, because he looked like the guy she knew. Lighterfox (talk) 08:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Rendering time?

Can anyone find out any information on rendering time for the movie? Average time to render a single frame or whatever? 209.232.147.200 18:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Planet Scar Syndrome, not "Star Scar"

The kanji hoshi (星) is used in the Japanese name of Geostigma, yes, but, please people, do not revert this meaning to "star" anymore, despite that being what hoshi means. In the Compilation of FFVII titles -- including the original game -- hoshi is used for "Planet." With the name "Geostigma" it should be obvious to anyone that this is what was meant. Ryu Kaze 23:13, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Handedness

The trivia section on handedness was incorrect in that it omitted Cid Highwind, the most infamous lefty in FFVII (and is shown in the movie wielding his spear with his left hand aside from the fact that he wields it in the game with his left hand).

His handedness coincides with his namesake, Kain Highwind, who was also a spear wielding lefty.

I cannot see why Tifa was listed as a Lefty (Reno clearly is, as he's seen wielding his nightstick with his left hand). Tifa uses incidental items such as telephones with her right hand, scrubs dishes and mugs with her right hand, reaches for her gloves with her right hand, generally uses her right hand as a "strong" hand in the church fight and grabs on to Cloud with her right hand in the boosting sequence. Did this get started because the closeup of her putting on her gloves is on her left hand? There is no other conclusiveness in either the game (but it has been years since I played it) or the movie.

Also, isn't Barrett necessarily a lefty (though probably was originally right handed before losing it)?

kefkafloyd 02:09, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia is trivial, but this seems a little crufty to me. It would be different if the characters already had laterality as an attribute, like the Final Fantasy IV characters. I don't think the average reader will really care what character uses what hand and when in the movie. ~ Hibana 02:28, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

That may be, but it was already there when I found it, and removing it really isn't my place, but I felt that I should explain the correction I made. The other fact that Kadaj and his gang were lefties was probably an allusion to Sephiroth, who was clearly a lefty in the game (and in the movie). kefkafloyd 23:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Red XIII

--12hernn 19:47, 25 May 2006 (UTC)Does anybody think Red XII should have had a bigger part? What about the expiriment with Areis and Red XIII? Does anybody even know what I'm talking about?!?- 12hernn

Ya I think he could have played a larger role. But if you look back in FF7, The Main role he had was taking them to "GrandFather". After that point he didnt really affect the story. Still I think there should have been more of him. Plus he is a freakin badass. I mean if you had him in your frontyard no one would F*&%$#@ rob you (written in tre barret style).

Genisis

That's just a matter of opinion, considering the only major characters in the entire movie are Cloud, Tifa and Kadaj. Observation 14:46, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I just think it kinda SUCKS. 12hernn 04:40, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

The other characters, aside from Vincent Valentine, only seemed to be thrown in their for the sack of the fans and did not really seem to have a major role to play in the film. I know that it was meant to symbolise friendship and family which has been said to be a major theme throughout the movie but they really needed to have a more important role in the film aside from helping cloud defeat bahamut. Also doesnt sephiroth count as a major character in the film. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.65.158.13 (talk) 13:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

Denzel's Question

In the last section of this article, there is a line that states:

"In the film, Denzel asks Tifa during the Bahamut fight scene, "Who is he/she" when Vincent and Yuffie run by. This is possibly a reference to FFVII refering to Vincent and Yuffie being optional characters"

-- I do not see the point of this, as the characters being optional does not affect their genders at all. Also, Cloud and Tifa both say Vincent and Yuffie's names out loud respectively. Not to forget the Denzel was never in the original game anyways, therefore he WOULDN'T know them anyways. Observation 15:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

...how do their genders figure in again? o__o Denzel's exact Japanese line is "Ano hito wa?" which can be interpreted as simply as "Who's that?" or "Who're they?"—urutapu 05:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Velvet Nightmare inspired by a Kriss dagger?

Just a thought, but I think so since the design is pretty similar although Velvet Nightmare is not sinuous. Any opinion for/against it?

I always thought it was a referance to Squall's gunblade seeing as they have similar things in common but don't get wrong, a Gunblade is a sword weapon and the Nightmares are guns but i swear it seems like i heard that from something cannon. 65.124.8.131 15:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Trivia-ish

Well, this is what I was referring to: http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/9585/15xj.gif When viewed upside-down, the scene of Cloud tearing through a motorcycle resembles the flashback of Jenova falling... anyone else notice this or give a crap? Probably not Trivia material, but I figured it was worth a mention at least here. Goroliath

The trivia section is already reference-malnourished. If you can please find a source for it, it would be better because the original research present is putting the article on the verge of requiring a cleanup. ~ Hibana 22:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

A source for it? Sorry, don't quite understand what you're referring to... the source is the movie itself. Goroliath

Wait, you have two scenes of a face slowly moving sideways, one of which doesn't tilt like the other does, isn't from the same exact angle and is upside down... and you figure this is some kind of a connection? That's not even coincidence, it's overactive imagination. Ville V. Kokko 05:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Realism

"The characters would often jump hundreds of feet in the air or get knocked off of enormous structures and walk away unscathed; things that the characters could never do in the original FF7."

This sounds perfectly reasonable for a level 99 character. Or a level 60 character assuming they beat the game early. The point is you're Godlike at that stage, and the over the top action scenes are meant to demonstrate that. Especially the gun shot to the head. In no way does that imply realism. Instead, the viewer might ask how much HP the shot took off, knowing that the characters can survive guns, explosives, fireballs, giant shards of ice, blasts powerful enough to destroy earth, and a supernova. Human realism might be a level 1-10 character, and even then such a character would surpass what's "normal" for the average person. Think of a level 20+ character in D&D. Or the Greek gods.

A gunshot to the head? You mean when Cloud first encounters the bad guys on bikes? I daresay that was deflected by his goggles. (Furthermore, I would guess Yazoo shot them off on purpose to show that he could have killed Cloud right there.) Surely HP's were an element of the game that the makers would remove when they could. They are a necessary concept for games, but would make fights silly and uninteresting. The fights in the movie don't involve most attacks hitting and the party taking more damage eventually succumbing from a number of nonlethal blows. (Except maybe the fistfight, but that's different, that would almost make sense.) Sure, Cloud is so superior he can fight people with guns with a sword, but he does that by deflecting bullets.

I agree that the general level of unrealism in the game makes just about anything in the movie appropriate. And that the concept of the "high-level" characters is very game-like. But I'm thinking of the unrealism of deliberately exaggerated things like limit breaks, summons and the size of some opponents, not mere artifacts of simplified combat system like being able to survive gunshots (even at low levels, incidentally) because a more realistic system where the characters should have to be able to dodge them entirely for most of the time to survive would have been immensely more complicated.

(And if the plot required it, I'm sure the characters could in fact take an indefinite amount of damage, not just what would be realistic for their HP. Which should be much lower than their opponents', anyway, since it couldn't surpass 9999. And the new Omnislash would have to be less powerful than the original since it involves less hits and each can only possibly do 9999 damage. Also, I didn't see any potions being used...) Ville V. Kokko 02:05, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

My point in putting that statement in the article was not to say that the movie lacked realism, but that it strayed away from the traditional fighting style of the game. Obviously it lacked realism. (I mean, I don't see anyone running around summonig huge dragons in real life). But, that's okay. The game itself lacked realism by the characters ability do things like use magic and what not, so putting that stuff in the movie is fine because their getting the material from the game. The fact that the characters can jump up hundreds of feet in the air was not the type ot thing you saw in the game, however. (Yes, they do make radical jumps and things during limit breaks, but those aren't hundreds of feet up.) I am simply saying that it felt more like watching an episode of Dragon Ball Z rather than Final Fantasy. I am not even saying that it was bad; I thought it was good movie and that the fighting was cool. I am merely stateing that it was differet.

I get what you're saying. The characters might be strong enough to survive those enormous falls, but they don't fight like that.

The creators stated that they used the movie to depict the characters the way they wanted to in the game. Perhaps they wanted them to jump around hundreds of feet in the air and such, but the good ol' PS1 couldn't handle it.--Soban 17:37, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Remember, this is a Science Fiction Fantasy story. The impossible is likely to happen with no explanation, because it is a FANTASY story.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS Y IT'S CALLED FINAL FANTASY. THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO DO IN SUCH ACTION THRILLING MOVIED. I MEAN, THE JUMPING STUFF ANIMATION IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST MEMORIABLE SCENE IN THIS MOVIE. THE ANIMATION AND THE SPEED, HIEGHT AND MOVES OF THE CHARACTER IS SUPERB. ONE OF THE GREAT ADVANCES IN MOVIE TECHNOLOGY. i just cant seem to

tell you guys how great the action scence were.

No one said that they weren't great, but merely that they were untrue to the sereis. A great example of that is as follows: during the fight with Bahaumat, Yuffie runs straight up the wall. The characters of ff7 do have some super-human abilities, but they can't fly and defy gravity.

In FFX Tidus was able to hold his breath underwater for what seemed like hours during Blitz. In FFVIII Rinoa was possessed by a witch and would sprout wings and shoot magic. Any and all "powers" and "abilities" that any of the characters in FF games have are all unreal, just like the characters in Advent Children defying gravity. The reason it would first said that the Bahamut fight scene was unreal (aside from the fact that the characters were facing a giant summoned dragon creature, which should have threw the whole reaslism thing out the window) was that everyone seemed to try and compare it to the first game (FFVII) and what could and couldn't be done but again you are comparing a movie that is a huge leap in CGI technology in the early 2000's and a game that was a huge leap in CGI technology back in the mid-90's comparing the two is diffulcult to do, it would be like if they took FF for NES and remade it for PS3. Other than just the characters and story it would basically be a different game. J-Axe

The examples you listed were all from different games. You can't make a movie based on one game, while using another that is cpompletely different as a source. I'll say it again: Yes, the characters in the game are super-human. But they cannot fly around and jump hundreds of feet into the air. This disscusion got started based on the idea that the fighting in the movie differed from the game, which it did. Period.

Yes it did differ from the game a little bit, but how did u no that they can't jump hundreds of feet into the air? and have u ever heard of improvision? there might be flaws or mistakes that the movie writer want to make up and make the movie more excitin

You may be right, but in saying that you prove my point. You said that there might be flaws or mistakes, which would mean that they can't do those things (jump hundreds of feet, etc.) in the game. It was considerably more exciting than if the characters had only stood in lines, attacking in turn, but it caused the movie to differ in the style of fighting. That's my entire argument: that it was different. And I know they cant because they don't do it.

So you are saying that if the characters do anything but stand still in lines and take turns, it's going to alter the style of fighting? In that case it would be automatic in transition from game to movie and absurd to even point out. If, on the other hand, you allow them to do something else, they're bound to be doing a bunch of things they were never seen doing in the game. Jumping hundreds of feet into the air does seem far-fetched, but ruling it out as something that couldn't have happened in the game (if only they could have shown combat better, say) is still a judgement, not a matter of evidence. Why? Because evidence straightforwardly examined would suggest the characters were also unable to do things like move more than once in several seconds during combat. Sure, it's common sense that THAT wasn't meant to be so, but with less obvious things you have to decide just how different is too different, and that's your judgement.

So to say it was different period is completely redundant, and you can't hide behind "evidence" when you state that you personally felt it was TOO different. A term like "arguably" might be more honestly used there.

Well we know that they can run and jump, etc. because we've seen them do it, so they don't have to just sit in line. But, for example, Yuffie can't run up a wall and defy gravity. It has to be cannon.

How does that pertain to changing the style of combat? Also, she could just only do it during battles when you can't tell - I don't think even Yuffie would run up walls just for the fun of it.

Anyhow, comments in the article pertaining to this are ones that don't cite their sources, aren't they? It seems that they're only there (or rather, there aren't other comments that negate them) because some people have figured that it's an opinion worth keeping untouched and have kept editing it back. Which brings us to the point that what is included as representing fan reactions can't be decided by arguing here anyway. I just wonder how many fans actually thought the battles weren't true to the spirit of whatever. Ville V. Kokko 18:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I just used Yuffie as an example of how the combat was portrayed differnently. Heck, look at the battle between Cloud and Sephiroth. They were flying through the air - are you gonna tell me that that happened in the game? And to say Yuffie did it when you don't see it, well, that could be true, but using that argument then you can make anything plausible. "Cloud's relly an illegal immigrant from Mexico who fights crime by night- they just don't show it." Besides, I'm just saying that it was differnt. That's all. And it does pertain to the article, because the section was one about critcism. The whole section is one of opinion, seeing as how it's based on fan reaction, therefore it has no citations. As to how many fans feel that way, I don't know exactley, but there's at least one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.125.172.252 (talk • contribs) .

I'm not making positive claims about the characters based on what is seen in the game. You (if you're the same unsigned person from before) are making negative claims based on what is not seen, and I'm pointing that out. I couldn't "make anything plausible", I'm talking about the creators themselves doing something.

And I'd say combat is in any case different from cut scenes and such of characters just walking around and stuff. There's not even any need to do many of the same things. So it's still true what was said earlier that of course the combat was different, since it wasn't just people standing in lines, and that's a completely redundant thing to point out because it couldn't possibly have been the same.

I'm not sure of all relevant policy, but even fan reactions certainly aren't supposed to be posted here on the basis of who decides to make what edit; and even if they are, on what basis has it been removed several times when people have pointed out why this argument about the battle being different didn't seem valid? That's just another opinion (regardless of who might win this argument), and from what I've seen it definitely has more than one person behind it. Ville V. Kokko 08:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, the only way to get rid of the opinions would be to delete the whole section. The section is 'recption', which is nothing but opinion. You can't talk about how well it was recived without bringing up opinions, regardless of what they are. So as long as there's a reception section, then how it was recieved is relevant. And the only reason I said 'you' could make anything plausible was simply a refrence to the fan community in general being able to make an argument; not specifically you as Ville V. Kokko. It does merrit mention, because the fighting was almost like watching DBZ os something. But, is you agree that it's different, then we're on the same page at least.

Why are you arguing about how the combat differs from the game? Everyone knew it'd differ when they first announced it. Yuffie didn't fly during the Bahamut fight, she ran up the walls; then jumped. And if you remember the part of the when Cloud found out he was a 'clone', then you'll remember that Cloud flew, then stood upside down (and later gave Sephiroth the Black Materia). There's no proof that they could jump that high, but there's also no proof of it. But as someone mentioned earlier, they were more powerful than normal humans (but then again, so were a lot of people in the game). And think of it like this, AVALANCHE defeated Sephiroth. Sephiroth had supernatural abilities (such as flying, going through walls, etc... 'it sound be noted that it was mostly JENOVA in Sephiroth's form, but it sound be spectulated that the real Sephiroth could do all of this considering that he was controlling JENOVA the whole time'). Because AVALANCHE beat him, they'd have to be strong (mostly because someone with all those powers can only be taken down with someone or a group with equal or greater strength). If the game were made like the movie, they'd be able to jump that high because they're strong (by using their leg muscles). Looks like I just proven that it was true and they could've jumped that high. ^^--Ryu Ematsu

The whole point of that critiscism was to point out that the movie differed from the game. Yuffie runs straight up the wall, defying gravity. They couldn't do those kinds of things in the game. If they could, then why should you have to play through all those levels? For example, when you're trying to run to the top of the cannon to stop Hojo, why go through all that trouble and waste all that time? Why not just leap to the roof in one bound? The reason is because they couldn't. The crazy, high flying and jumping fight sceens were put in there soely to give the movie more dynamic action. But, obviously, the characters suffered human limitations in the game. Besides, the game came first, so it wasn't created to follow the movie. The movie creators are the ones with the responisbility of keeping things true to the series.

What you need to know is that the game and gameplay are limited. The creators probably wanted the characters to do things like that, but they finally had the chance to do so in the movie. The article even says 'full realization'. And besides, if memory serves right, didn't they say their only rule was anything goes as long as it looks cool? Get over it and stop bitching.

I'm sure we can all agree the fights in the movie differ from those in the game. But having everyone stand in a line then run forward (when it was their turn), take a slash at an opponent then run back into line would have made pretty weird cinema. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.14.171.190 (talk) 03:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

excuse me but AC spoiled the game's charm to me. in fact, i want to think the movie never existed. the fights were rediculous, with characters jumping like a mile high, and stupid super-hero-alike fights with little thrill about it (everyone knows the hero is gonna win in the end, no matter how many random sword clashes in the middle). its not about realism. its about coherency. not saying that FF8 is as good as FF7 (nothing gets even close to FF7) but look at the intro of FF8 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pZ2ibvZb2Q ) with that absolutelly lovely fight between Squall and Seifer. Now THIS is a fight, and its how AC fights should have been. swords clash back and forth, and every swing of the blades could mean a fatal wound, so it keeps you thrilled (not like in AC where you know the fight is going to end when the director pleases). there is even MAGIC (a fireball) used in a COHERENT way. is it that difficult to do, to keep the fights near the GROUND? also, nothing to do with FF, but this is another sample of how to do a really great CG fight without making it a flying-fest ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BUkFUGnrE8 ) (the only thing that flies is that orc, but launched by a rock lobber, and he DIES after that lol) the fights, specially the last one between the Chaos Warrior and the Warrior Priest, are BREATH-TAKING. if there was just one fight in AC that could thrill me that way, it would have been fantastic. and what about group fights? i always imagined Avalanche as a compact self supporting combat group. with Cloud slashing left and right in a very contundent way, but not invincible, Barret weakening enemies before they made contact with the group, and using his high strenght and his massive gun-arm to smash things when they came close, Yuffie swiftly sneaking in the back of adversaries and backstabbing them, Tifa stunning stuff in close quarters, Cid piercing the hell out of things while yelling with fool language, Nanaki jumping around like the beast he is, emitting battle roars, and Vincent swiftly picking targets with his rifle from afar, and ripping them when they came close with his claw. what we have in the movie? the group randomly harassing the big monster without doing a SINGLE scratch to it, then Cloud arrives and the 'teamplay' is over -_-

I'm sorry the movie didn't play out the way you wanted it to, but it's actual canon, not your fan-fiction. Also, obviously the hero was going to win! In the games, obviously you're going to win, otherwise you would just stop playing the game! You are basically critizing almost every single action movie out there by complaining that the hero always wins.Mishy dishy (talk) 04:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

--Birth of a God-- 19:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC) Look while the long and short of the argument is that the fighting style and physics were different, would you have really wanted to sit there and watch and an hour and a half of turn-based fighting? No. Nobody would. It would completely remove you from the movie-watching experience if everytime something was about to go down all of the characters stood side-by-side and had to wait for a timer to attack. Final Fantasy 7 expanded video games and cinematic story-telling in video games in the ways that the system would allow it. That may just as well be the reason that the style in the movie was different from that of the game, for the sole sake of system limits. If Square decided that it wanted to redo Final Fantasy 7 on PS3 with the graphics engine used in Advent Children and add superhuman gravity-defying maneuvers then that would be their prerogative regardless of what the fans think. Of course, that's not saying that if they do re-release it that way that I'll be happy with their choice (because I personally like the classic turn-based attack system) but I'd still throw out 60 bucks for it. Look, the bottom line is everyone who is a fan of Final Fantasy 7 should have been happy with Advent Children because movies have to be told from a different perspective than video games, regardless of how video game-like they seem or what they're based off of. In light of this fact, the fighting style changes are essential to the storytelling of the movie, as opposed to the interactivity of the game. That's my two cents.

Let me just say that the game was made long ago so all that was feasible was to attack or use commands. whose to say that any of the charecters couldn't run up walls? second it is fantasy and for that matter people cant shoot beams of energy from swords. third the action is fact paced and its obvious that what SquareEnix wants every Final Fantasy to be, action and fast paced just like the upcoming Final Fantasy XIII, don't believe me then go read the article on Wikipedia. 65.124.8.131 15:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

To all of you who are arguing the realism, this is very silly. There's no difference in realism level between the movie and game. So Yuffie ran up a wall and Cloud and Sephiroth flew as they fought. Did you see any ground underfoot in the fight against Seifer Sephiroth? Didn't level 6 Cloud survive a fall of hundreds of feet into the slums? (Seriously, that flower patch can't be THAT good of a cushion!) Didn't we regularly see characters in FFVII, notably Vincent and Yuffie, jumping more than 20 apparent feet in a single bound like hyperactive rabbits?

The point is, throughout the series, FF has thrown realistic physics out the window whenever necessary to improve drama and excitement. That's the nature of the beast. I was thrilled that the creators of the movie didn't ruin it by sticking to some false ideal of physical realism; the entire point of doing the thing CGI instead of live-action is that it allows the violation of the laws of physics that makes the fight scenes in AC so jaw-droppingly impressive. Kasreyn (talk) 14:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Lets be honest there was very litle of the game that was real (mad hair styles, cloud holding a big sword with one hand, barret having a gun for a hand, and a talking dog to name a few). About the only thing realistic about the game was that the characters resembled humans! Who cares if the movie was not as real as the game. - lighterfox —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.198.140.23 (talk) 14:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Kadaj's Rant

I was just watching this. During the scene at the forgotten city, Kadaj's rant looked a little familar. Aside from his glowing, all you have to do is change a few words and he sounds like this guy or this guy. Kinda creeps me out. Tell what you think of my opinion if you watched the movie.--Lionheart Omega 02:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know much about what Pastor Ted says, and I never listen when Osama Bin Ladin talks because anyone who would kill innocent people is full of crap. But, in reference to what you are saying and to be fair, I would like to know what words you would change. I mean, if I say 'I think that you are neat', and you change the word 'neat' to 'stupid', then the meaning is dramatically altered. I am just curious as to what exactly you're refrencing to.

I remember Kadaj's speech. It's strange but I also believe in it what he says. Some people think, "only the strong survive" or the famous "every man for himself" phrase. No being on earth is naturally negative. We are born with the following aspects; curiosity, innocence, observance, vulnerability, and positivity until negativity attacks us. We know nothing of war or violence until we are attacked or taught it, so basically Kadaj was referring to the dangers hidden on earth can still kill and injure us in our environment, including one another. A normal uncorrupted individual would not create negativity unless they experienced it or was trained by it. It's kinda of spooky that what he said was the truth.

I don't remember much of what Osama Bin Laden has said nor do I know who Ted Haggard is, but I will pay more attention to it in the future. Thanks for your topic. Armoredavian 18:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

SHIN?

Where did you mistranslation of SHIN to SIN come from? As far as I can tell neither SHIN or SIN is ever mentioned in the movie or the credits. Every site that mentions SHIN is a JP source and nearly every source that mentions SIN is for the action figure. And also pretty much every article on this site where the name of this Bahamut is mentioned it is different from another. Should there be a consenses on which name to use? User:J-Axe

• The release of the Bahamut figure in the US has it named Bahamut Sin. Seeing as how this is official, and what they chose to go with, I'm not sure how you get the idea that it's necessarily a mistranslation. And since that's what they use in the US, that's what this english article should use under the policies for such things. Also, please sign your comments. Nezu Chiza 08:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • oh crap forgot to sign it, well it kind of is a mistranslation because SHIN is Japanese for Tremor and Tremor is the name for a Japanese jet plane. All the Bahamuts are named after jet planes. Its very much in the same vain as Shera and Sierra where they sound the same in Japanese but in English the sounds are different. User:J-Axe

SIN is the official English named used, and this is en:Wikipedia, so...—ウルタプ 16:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay that is cool, I just thought since the figure was the only thing that was actually labeled Sin or SIN and that even though they sound the same in Japanese the spelling SHIN has a meaning in Japan unlike SIN (but I guess it could be argued that neither have a meaning in english) that the encyclopedia would want to go with that but if SIN or Sin (that atleast needs clarifacation) is the offical english it only makes sense to go with that. J-Axe

I myself don't care abouth the name so much as a Romanization, since "shin" could be Hepburn romanization and "sin" could be Nihon-siki.—ウルタプ 20:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Bahamut SIN? Isn't that a semi relation to Final Fantasy X? (Seeing the Bahamut aeon has a close relation except for size and the main villan is Sin. Also adding that the Bahamut aeon has a overdrive attack similar the Bahamut SIN's energy attack) Danm36 15:32, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Memetic

Does anyone know what "memetic" means? Kadaj says something about a "memetic legacy" and I have no idea what he means by that. There's no entry for "memetic" in Wiktionary either. - The preceding comment was made by Grevenko Sereth 21:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

When you put in Memetic into a dictionary you get meme, I think memetic is pass tense or something like that for meme. Here is the definition. meme - a cultural unit (an idea or value or pattern of behavior) that is passed from one generation to another by nongenetic means (as by imitation); "memes are the cultrual counterpart of genes". J-Axe

Gene, genetic, meme, memetic. In other words, memetic just means "of or to do with memes", with memes being units of information. It's a pretty opaque way of saying that, though Jenova is dead, her goals and motives live on, first through Sephiroth and then, by extension, the SHM. --86.143.215.106 10:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't believe this is a serious question. "Memetic" means of / related to information, idea(s) or maybe a set of doctrines that survive by replicating theirselves. For instance, religion can be viewed as a "memetic" construct because it is essentially a set of doctrines that survive through cultural and social indoctrination. In this case, Kadaj is describing the genetic legacy of JENOVA. JENOVA's cells are basically "programmed" with a certain purpose. Those bearing her DMA "inherit" this hard-wired purpose; thus, it is memetic in nature. (well, more technically genetic, but I suppose "memetic legacy" sounds cooler) 68.209.235.149 (talk) 08:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It means a legacy passed on in this case from Jenova to her "children" (Spehiroth, Kadaj ect) Jenova's legacy is of course the calamity and death that she would bring which was then passed on to Sephiroth. 65.124.8.131 15:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Marlene

Does anyone know why Marlene was taken by Loz? She didn't have the geostigma and yet it seemed he clearly wanted to take her.

For the same reason he didn't kill Tifa, it would bring Cloud. Tifa would tell Cloud and Cloud would (did) come after them to get her back. J-Axe

Also when he took Marlene he had PROBABLY realised that Cloud would come after him because Denzel was missing so he could use Marlene as a hostage for clouds compliance and to also stop him from fighting at full strength

Link to Final Fantasy Forums.net

Alright, I was wondering if it would be okay or it is time to add a link to Final Fantasy Forums.net? Seeing as Advent Children.net is already in the list, why not place FFF.net as well since it's the only and huge community forum to discuss about for AC? Please post back. The link is right here - http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/final-fantasy-vii-advent-children.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darkishblade (talk • contribs) .

You are linking to a forum with 7 threads. That is not notable enough to warrant inclusion as external link. -- ReyBrujo 23:40, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

And so what if it got only 7 threads? Well, there is like over 800 of posts, as you can see for yourself. And remember that the forum is sort of new so yeah. What do you expect? A site that has been launched for about 6 months must have at least over 10,000 of threads? I don't think so. Give it time and it'll even grow bigger as it is already. ;) Darkishblade 03:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

If it is new, why it is necessary to include in the article? I like to say that "first notability, then Wikipedia". Neither articles nor external links should be added to increment the traffic to a determined site; at the time of inclusion, they should be notable on their own. Maybe in 6 months the forum would be considered important, but right now, it is not. Sorry, but if we were to allow young or non important forums, the article would grow out of hands. You can consider adding the link to Open Directory Project, though. Check http://dmoz.org/Arts/Animation/Movies/Titles/Final_Fantasy_VII_Advent_Children/ -- ReyBrujo 04:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Nothing against your forum but its just a forum. On Wikipedia external links must add something interesting or informative to the article. Most forums do not do that, in fact most forums are just for fans to chatter. Trust me I've been through enough forums to know and with threads like "Favorite character?", "Favorite Scene?", "Is this [insert character name] hot or not?" and so on it does not add information and background to the article for people who are looking to learn about FFVII. You could have the nicest and coolest forum on the net but without intresting and informative things to read you have nothing to that would translate to a Wikipedia link. And if there are forums as links on Wikipedia its probably for a discussion that disputes facts on here. J-Axe

Closed for Business Sign

If only I could confirm this properly... as I understand it, this is a poor translation. Could anyone fluent in Japanese and English please take a look and verify? My friend is back at Japan for the season and won't be around to give a proper explanation. Jachra 03:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Ha, it's a joke. You might've missed the humor. Yuffie is giving Cloud a "Closed for Business" sign so that he'd close the Cloud Delivery Service and get on with life, stop dwelling on how he "failed" to save Aerith and Zack, and move on. For a while Cloud believed that he couldn't save anybody. Tifa referred to it as "dilly dally shilly shally". His friends have believed him to be far greater than just a delivery boy. (Even his enemies have believed in him, far more than he believed in himself) 71.99.11.235 00:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

I was going to integrate the trivia-section into the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Trivia_Cleanup), but I honestly couldn't find anything worth keeping in the main text. I'm posting it here in case anyone disagrees, just please don't repost the entire section.

• When Loz's phone rings after the battle with Tifa in the church, his ringtone is the beginning of the battle "Victory Fanfare" theme from Final Fantasy VII, which is fitting as Tifa, at first, was thought to have won the fight.
• Many limit breaks are performed in the movie including Cloud's Blade Beam, Braver, Climhazard, Finishing Touch, and a new version of Omnislash, called Omnislash Version 5. Tifa, Red XIII, and Barret also appear to do some variation of their limit breaks as well.
• After being defeated, a single black wing sprouts from Sephiroth's back. This is a reference to Final Fantasy VII's final boss theme "One Winged Angel." A revised version of that piece — called "Advent One Winged Angel," and featuring different lyrics with a heavy metal accompaniment — is heard during the final battle between Cloud and Sephiroth. Sephiroth is also portrayed with a single black wing in the Kingdom Hearts series.
• The once-playable characters are shown bearing pink ribbons, keepsakes of Aerith. Everyone wears them at their upper left arm except Barret who has it at his left wrist, and Vincent where the knot appears to be from his right arm; Red XIII carries it at his front left leg. The Ribbon is also a recurring item in the Final Fantasy series; characters wearing it are usually granted immunity to all status ailments.
• Several signs seen in the film were posted by the World Regenesis Organization (WRO), the organization headed up by Reeve Tuesti in Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII. One particular sign has what appears to be Cait Sith's head as the W.R.O logo, a reference to Reeve himself.
• Although there is no direct connection between the two films, elements of Square Enix were also involved in the production of another CGI Final Fantasy-based film, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. That film's box office failure is cited as one of the factors leading to the creation of the merged company Square Enix.
• According to one of the animators (interviewed for one of the DVD featurettes), the filmmakers almost made fight scenes more realistic, but chose not to, otherwise they might as well have filmed a live-action production with real actors.
• After Vincent rescued Cloud in the Sleeping Forest, Marlene asked Vincent if he had a mobile phone so that she could call Tifa, due to Cloud having lost his own during his fight with Kadaj's gang. Vincent didn't have one, however, and was embarassed by Marlene's reaction of near-disbelief to Vincent's lack of a phone. Further, Cloud informed Vincent that he would let him know how his attempt to find forgiveness of his "sins" went, a matter that would likely be of personal interest to Vincent considering his own history of accusing himself of committing sins, gesturing with his hand that he would call him. Vincent would be unable to keep in touch with Cloud and his other comrades easily if he continued to conduct himself without a phone. Therefore, he intended to buy one and "catch up with the times" so to speak, as he breifly says to Tifa before the fight with Bahamut Sin, "Where can I buy a phone?". As for whether or not he ever got around to doing this, as can be seen or, more accurately, heard, in Reminiscence of Final Fantasy VII, Vincent does acquire a mobile after the events of Advent Children. In Dirge of Cerberus Vincent has a cell phone with his 'Cerberus' symbol on it.
• A UH-60 Blackhawk can be found in the movie, being piloted by the Turk, Reno, and later on the highway with Reno and Rude.
• During the fight scene in the forest near the Forgotten Capital between Cloud and Kadaj's gang, Cloud at one point jumps into the air and fends off both Loz and Yazoo using two swords. His movements in this scene are closely similar to the fighting, including camera angles, of Roxas in the Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix secret video titled "Another Side, Another Story [deep dive]". Like Advent Children, Kingdom Hearts is also one of Tetsuya Nomura's projects, and the CG team that created the "Another side, Another story…" and "deep dive" FMV trailers also worked on Advent Children.
• During the course of the film, there are very distinct references to Cloud's "lone wolf" status: When Tifa first calls him, there is a wolf standing near the implanted sword. When Cloud passes out next to Tifa shortly after finding her in the church, there is a wolf standing in the flowers a few feet away on the overhead shot. The wolf also appears at the end of the scene in the Forgotten City (after Cloud's phone reaches the bottom of the pool in which it fell), standing by the lake where Aerith's body rests (though the camera is panned far out, and it is rather difficult to spot the wolf--when a tree in the foreground passes, the wolf has disappeared). Finally, during the white light/death scene, a wolf walks up to the unconscious Cloud. Perhaps the final wolf's dissipation is Cloud's realization that he isn't alone, and has people he can indeed stand by (the photo after the end credits).
• It was stated in the Advent Children Reunion Files production book that the wolf, known as the "Cloudy Wolf," represents the deepest part in Cloud's psyche, and appears in response to some burden he is carrying, as well represent him being a "lone wolf" since he seemingly severed himself from his friends and family.
• The areas the wolf appears in are likely related to whichever of Cloud's burdens it has appeared in response to. Incidentally, several items of Cloud's seem to resemble, or are based off of, wolves: His earrings, when looked at closely, actually match the wolf-head pendant (possibly a buckle of some kind) on Cloud's shoulder pad, as does his signature ring which is seen on Tifa's right hand, Barret's left hand, and on a necklace worn by Denzel. Also, his motorbike is named after the wolf of Norse Mythology, Fenrir, which is also a summon monster in other Final Fantasy titles.
• There is a cameo appearance of the Final Fantasy VII game cover early in the movie. When Tifa turns to walk into Clouds office to answer the phone and the camera pans to the right, if paused at the right moment (or played in slow motion) the reflection of the cover is very briefly visible on the back of the black phone base.
• The memorial in Edge city has the words "Keep on Rockin in Midgar" written on it.
• An early CG test seen in Reunion Files was created in order to test lighting effects. It is a short video of Cloud riding across Midgar rooftops on his motorbike, which is slightly different looking from the final version.
• During the last scene, as Cloud watches Aeris walk away, a piece from Final Fantasy IX's airship theme "Hilda Garde 3" is heard briefly.

--Pax:Vobiscum 16:40, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Why does it say Cloud's wolf symbol is like Squall's Griever? Griever is more of a lion than a wolf. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.68.163.210 (talk • contribs).

About the wolf. I always thought it symbolized Zack, due to the fact that the hair/fur for them is the same color and Zack was trying to protect Cloud which explains why he always is around cloud, not to mention why the wolf would have been at Zack's grave next to the Buster Sword. thats just me though. 65.124.8.131 15:15, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there some reason why this isnt being added to the actual article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.179.160 (talk) 13:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Maiden who Travels the Planet

Should this be moved from the FFVIIAC article to the regular FFVII article? It was published in the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, after all. Besides, it's essentially just the rest of FFVII after Aerith dies, but told from her side. WtW-Suzaku 01:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

It's already mentioned in Aerith's article so I removed it. Thanks. Axem Titanium 01:56, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Story Summary isn't a Spoiler?

Why isn't the story summary on this page a Spoiler? It definately includes "plot and/or ending details." One can see even in Sephiroth's section about Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, there is a Spoiler warning. The summary given here also "may reduce one's enjoyment of reading, viewing, or playing the work by revealing certain plot events or twists." (Wikipedia: Spoiler warning)

So why is it improper to simply tell the users that it is a Spoiler? Ilikerps

There have been long, involved discussions about this. Most notably, the one on the main Final Fantasy VII talk page (there's one active, and one archived). I recommend checking those out, and the decisions made within them, for why exactly there are no spoiler warnings on any of these pages. My summary of it, for you: WP:NOT#CENSORED, and if you click on the Disclaimers section at the bottom of every page, and go to Content Disclaimers, well, there you have it. This is an encyclopedia, not a fansite (and even those sometimes have unmarked spoilers). If you don't want the story to be spoiled, don't look at Wikipedia, since you are BOUND to find spoilers in encyclopedias. You wouldn't look at an official strategy guide and expect it not to have spoilers, would you?

My only addition to this argument is this: it's been over a year since FFVII:AC was released in Japan, and it's been 6 months since it was released in North America. If "you" (general sense, meaning anyone who read the Wiki article without seeing the movie and then complain about spoilers. I do not claim that you are like this at all ^^; ) can't handle spoilers, the movie is readily available for rent in many movie rental stores, and for borrow from many fans, (heck, there are even downloads of it on the internet) so go watch it before trying to research and read about it where you'll be exposed to spoilers if you don't want the story to be spoiled. Nique1287 15:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't have said it better myself. This has been discussed to death and at least on WP:SE pages, there will be no spoiler warning. Axem Titanium 04:08, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I must say, at first i agreed with the first post, but well done you have mannaged to convince me, this does not need a spoiler warning!! -lighterfox

German and Spanish Releases

Well, the infobox has some information missing. The movie didn't come out in all of Europe on that day. The German version was release recently, 06. December 2006. --84.184.120.57 15:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

The Spanish version was release recently, 29. January 2007 (UMD) and 16. February 2007 (DVD)

Actual reception section?

I already added critical response from Rotten Tomatoes to this page (I hope fanboys don't try to censor this information; it's still a movie, people!). I remember that the movie got 8.4 on Gamerankings or something; could someone add reviews from game sites as well? The Legend of Miyamoto 16:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the edit firstly because what rottentomatoes gives the movie is irrelevant to the article itself, you dont find rottentomatoes ratings on every film page, and I see no reason why it should appear here. My other reason for editing it is because I`m a "fanboy", and hate to see a good film knocked by biased reviewers. Plebmonk 22:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I've restored it because it provides good insight on popular opinion of the movie, "fanboys" notwithstanding. Other sources will be found that provide a neutral and balanced point of view on the movie. Axem Titanium 23:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I've edited the section further, removing clearly POV parts, such as the mention of "official"ity when it comes to Rotten Tomatoes, needless adjectives ("high-quality" visuals; it's already stated that the visuals are praised, adding "high-quality" is redundant), and a strange sentence about "realizing" characters that didn't belong in the reception section at all. This is a bad movie, let's make that clear, people. =) ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 01:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The section is still crap, what the hell does it matter if critics or not have played the game?, this is a movie, regardless if it was based on a video game or not, thousand of movies get made out of things like books, television series, etc (eg: lord of the rings, it was not necesary to have read the book before watching it, not even the hobbit, the movie condensed the information really well, and thats just one example).

Point to this sentence?

New scenes will be added to the movie, including one where Sephiroth impales Cloud with his sword and then lifts his body up into the air. 72.83.118.187 00:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Vincent's clothes

Didn't the begining of the movie (when Marlean was talking) Have Vincent Wereing clothes slightly differnt then the game, when the scene was taking place in the game? I think the movie had him have both arm's sleeves while in the game his right arm is sleeveless and he was whering a glove instead.Jesusinmysock 19:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Limit Breaks Used

I suggest that this section of the article be either moved elsewhere in the article or removed alltogether. I would do so myself, but I do not regularly edit this article.--Lifebaka 14:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Burned with fire. Axem Titanium 22:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Zackareith.jpg

Image:Zackareith.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 11:36, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Reception

In the reception section, it is written that those who criticised the film hadn't played the original game. I think this is a misleading statement, as it implies that every fan of the original game loved the film, and those that disliked the film shouldn't have reviewed it in the first place because they hadn't played the game. I know plenty people that loved the game and hated the film, including myself. I think it would be best to see this statement gone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philtrauferson (talk • contribs) 14:40, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, but this attributes to a reliable source. Greg Jones II 01:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Panasonic Cloud.jpg

Image:Panasonic Cloud.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Total sales?

Does anyone know how many copies this movie sold worldwide? According to http://www.ffrepublic.com/news/final_fantasy_news/Advent-Children-sells-2-4-million-units-52 as of around July 2006 it sold 1.3 million in North America, 100K in Europe, and 1 million in Japan. This includes DVD and UMD. How many total worldwide by now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.110.135 (talk) 06:20, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

First Ken?

When was Cloud's new sword ever called First Ken? I thought the head honchos as SquareEnix always called it First Tsrugi (First Sword)? Clairification anyone? 65.124.8.131 15:11, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Both "ken" and "tsurugi" mean "sword," and use the same kanji (剣) to boot. The term ファースト剣 (First Ken) first appeared in printed interviews, which led to most fans assuming it used the "tsurugi" reading. But then the DVD came out, and the live interviews called it "First Ken."—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 15:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Well then i guess that clarifies it good enough thanks.65.124.8.131 15:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Japanese pronunciations and spelling

After watching what's threatening to become a revert war about whether phonetic pronunciations should be included, I noticed someone mentioned that they're used due to convention. Anyone know where on Wikipedia in has such a thing included in the style guides? I'm just curious as to whether it's done because "it's always been that way" or if it's done "because theres a style guideline we use."

Personally, I find including the phonetics somewhat annoying, since when someone says something like "Fainaru Fantajī Sebun Adobento Chirudoren", you know it's because of language limitations, and what they really MEAN is Final Fantasy Seven Advent Children. So why include the tortured pronunciation? Nezu Chiza (talk) 00:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I just arrived, but I guess it is this style guide from WikiProject Video Games. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tifalodz.JPG

Image:Tifalodz.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 02:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Blu-Ray

Any word yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.81.90.169 (talk) 23:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

No. FightingStreet (talk) 11:42, 2 March 2008 (UTC)