Talk:Final Destination: Bloodlines

Mark Brandon

Please stop spamming your name to the cast section and in the infobox. You said the press release mentioned you in the main cast. Which press release? The reference in article says " Max Lloyd-Jones (The Book of Boba Fett), Rya Kihlstedt (Obi Wan Kenobi) and Tinpo Lee (The Manor) round out the rest of the cast." I have explained these reverts in the edit summaries. Also read WP:COI. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MikeAllen (talk • contribs) 15:49, July 3, 2024 (UTC)

Mike, I did not say I was included. I said I was left off. So, I’m not “spamming.” If you worked on the movie too, how would that make you feel? I’m not going to turn this into an unnecessary squabble. People will eventually see my name in the crawl. And that will be the end of this exercise as far as I’m concerned. 2604:3D08:6786:1F00:8C03:2824:C711:38E4 (talk) 16:16, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per these diffs of adding your name:[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] No one is saying you are not in the film. However, no reliable third party sources mention your name. Read WP:V. Wikipedia does not use IMDB as a source. Read WP:IMDB. Wikipedia is obviously not the final say in credits, the film's end credits are. When that is available the cast section will be reflected in accordance. Mike Allen 17:20, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A suggestion is that you could do an interview with websites such as Bloody Disgusting or Collider and speak about your role? Mike Allen 17:26, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For listing cast members, we follow MOS:FILMCAST and try to follow specific rules of thumb to ensure that we do not have indiscriminate lists of names. It looks like in March 2024, the trade papers reported a set of names, which is what the article body uses. If we append names to that set, it should be verifiable and discriminate (not just referencing a database like IMDb). By the time the film comes out, we can adjust the cast list based on what reliable sources say at that time, which could be more or less names. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 18:37, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Noteworthy context in first sentence

Per policies and guidelines outlined at WP:FILM1STSENTENCE, the franchise is far more noteworthy than either director. We are not required to put the director upfront every time; nothing at all has ever required this. It has only been "tradition" that can and should be challenged. It's very easy to see this priority for this film. The Hollywood Reporter highlights it being the sixth film long before mentioning the directors. So does Deadline. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 00:17, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just to note here as well as in my revert edit summary, "WP:FILM1STSENTENCE" is an essay written by editor Erik, so about as much "policy" and "guideline" as, I don't know, my comment here. I have been actively editing seven years now and I have to say, I have never encountered someone referring back to an essay they themselves wrote as some kind of "must be followed" guideline. I mean... I guess kudos to your insane cojones but, uh, no. —Joeyconnick (talk) 19:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's an essay so I don't have to paste the relevant policies and guidelines here. But if that is necessary, here we go:

MOS:OPEN: "The first paragraph should define or identify the topic with a neutral point of view, but without being too specific. It should establish the context in which the topic is being considered by supplying the set of circumstances or facts that surround it."
MOS:FIRST:

"The first sentence should tell the nonspecialist reader what or who the subject is, and often when or where."
"For topics notable for only one reason, this reason should usually be given in the first sentence."

MOS:CONTEXTLINK: "The first sentence should provide links to the broader or more elementary topics that are important to the article's topic or place it into the context where it is notable."
WP:UNDUE: "Undue weight can be given in several ways, including but not limited to the depth of detail, the quantity of text, prominence of placement, the juxtaposition of statements, and the use of imagery." (emphasis mine)

Based on these policies and guidelines, and the citations I provided, are you truly insisting that the directors are more noteworthy context than the franchise? And in addition, MOS:FILM never requires the director to be named in the first sentence. Just because you've seen it done doesn't mean it's proper in every single instance. Hence "tradition" in quotes. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 22:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And clearly you never crossed paths with TenPoundHammer and his WP:HAMMER.

My essay is only intended to consolidate the same policy-based and guideline-based argument I've repeated across numerous topics (because editors erroneously think the first sentence must always name the director, when nothing at all requires this). Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 22:14, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]