Talk:Filipa Moniz Perestrelo

Felipa Perestrelo y Moniz

Davidcottamosborn: The lady's name was Filipa Moniz Perestrelo, which is the correct Portuguese it was not Felipa Perestrelo y Moniz which is a Spanishized version of her name.

Dougweller Questions on Edits

" 8 December 2010 Dougweller (talk | contribs) (3,670 bytes) (I wondered about this one, but I doubt that anyone who needs to write their own article at pt.wiki is a reliable source, WP:SPS) (undo)"
I am concerned that you keep removing information that I add as if I am inventing it. I don't understand the comment you made (pasted above) are you saying Manuel Abranches de Soveral, ( http://www.soveral.info/historia.htm ) one of Portugal's trusted genealogists and author of "Sangue Real" is not a reliable source? Or are you insinuating that I am not the reliable source? I apologize if the links do not work, I see no reason why that is happening because it links to Filipa Moniz in http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=52937 the database of www.geneall.net is one of the worlds most important genealogy sites and very necessary to understand the relationships of the people we mention in this article. I don't see how else to get the information to wiki readers. If I add it, you go delete it as not a reliable source. If I add a reliable source such as Portuguese genealogists from the 17th century you remove it. If I add a link to a current website run by geneaologists, you say I should not link? How then do we add the necessary information to Filipa Moniz's page to show who she truly was in her lifetime? Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 05:52, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

We have a noticeboard, WP:RSN, where you can raise such issues. You might be able to persuade people that Manuel Abranches de Soveral is a reliable source, it was the fact that no one else had written an article about him on the Portuguese Wikipedia and he had to do it himself that made me doubt him. The information on genealogy web sites is added by users. Have you read WP:RS? And adding your own book is a conflict of interest, see WP:COI, but I didn't remove it, did I? Dougweller (talk) 06:01, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Colon-el-Nuevo, you would do well to read WP:NOENG which says, in part, "English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones, unless no English sources of equal quality and relevance are available. When quoting a source in a different language, provide both the original-language text and an English translation in the text or a footnote." Also see WP:SPS which says we don't cite open wikis, as you did when you cited pt.wikipedia.org. It would be better to cite a published book that is not available online than to cite unreliable online sources.—Diiscool (talk) 14:57, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Diiscool, thank you for the lesson. It is difficult to find time to read all the wiki rules. I will try to be more resourceful with the sources.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:16, 10 December 2010 (UTC).

Colón. La Historia Nunca Contada as Reference

Request for additional comments on inclusion of alternative historical views and proper sourcing thereof. 06:59, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

On page 144 of this book Mr. Rosa shows an image of a document from the Portuguese National Archives known as Torre do Tombo, or TT. The document is cited as "TT, Convento de Santos-o-Novo, Doc. 477. Convento de Santos[-o-Velho], 4-1-1475. Imagen cedida por AN/TT" in whihc is written:

"Muy honrada, religiosa, señora doña Beatriz de Menenses, comendadora de dicho monasterio y Graçia Estévez, Lianor Correa, Catarina Rodriguez, Susana Pereira, Catarina de Valadares, doña Lianor de Meneses, Filipa Moniz, Johana da Silva, Johana de Lordello, Beatriz de Goes y Catarina da Rosa todas dueñas de dicho monasterio estando en cabido..."

Very Honorable, religious, lady Dona Beatriz de Menenses, superior of the said monastery and Graçia Estévez, Lianor Correa, Catarina Rodriguez, Susana Pereira, Catarina de Valadares, doña Lianor de Meneses, Filipa Moniz, Johana da Silva, Johana de Lordello, Beatriz de Goes and Catarina da Rosa al of them donas (owners or invested) of the said monastery being in committee...
It constitutes reliable proof that Filipa Moniz was thus one of the residents of that Order of Santiago residence.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 21:01, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

See WP:RSN#Is this book by an IT specialist a reliable source for a history article?. --Dougweller (talk) 21:38, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Per WP:PRIMARY "Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation." You can't cite the text in an image and make a claim of your own based on that image. You need to cite, specifically with page numbers and preferably with quotations, from a reliable secondary source. Also, if you are going to cite a book, please provide full author/editor, publisher name, year of publication, etc.—Diiscool (talk) 23:31, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

April 2011

Colón. La Historia Nunca Contada does not meet the requirements for a reliable source. It does not meet the parameters outlined at Wikipedia:Fringe_theories#Reliable_sources: "Reliable sources on Wikipedia include peer-reviewed journals; books published by university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers." Furthermore, there is no consensus to allow it as a source in this article. I also feel that the editor Colon-el-Nuevo has a conflict of interest in this topic. —Diiscool (talk) 17:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

You beat me to it. I agree with everything you've said. Dougweller (talk) 17:48, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I find it amazing that you can both use Rosa as a source for this article and then also describe him as an unreliable source. I bet if he had written another reassurance of the 500-year-old tale, as did Morison and Tavianni, he suddenly would be a very reliable source. Yet the article mentions several points proven for the first time in Rosa's 3 books:

• Documental proof that "Filipa was a resident of the Monastery of All Saints in Lisbon of the Military Order of St. James" - presented for the first time in Rosa's book
• "Filipa Moniz as one of the twelve comendadoras" and thus an elite member of this Portuguese Order of Santiago - presented for the first time in Rosa's book.
• That Filipa was a part of the team that managed the Monastery of All Saints's properties. - presented for the first time in Rosa's book.
• That Filipa's name no longer shows up in the All Saints archives after January 1479. - presented for the first time in Rosa's book.
• That Filipa could not marry anyone without authorization from King John II of Portugal. - presented for the first time in Rosa's book.

It is highly interesting that the source for all these statements is seen as an unreliable source. Maybe you should just rewrite the article to say what Morison wrote:

"Filipa Moniz was a poor boarder of All Saints and her mother could no longer afford to pay the boarding. Therefore Isabel Moniz married her destitute daughter off to a wool-weaving peasant who had just arrived in Portugal from a shipwreck."Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 13:33, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the article does not cite any "Rosa." What are you going on about? I find it amazing that you can not stop pushing your own POV on this article. —Diiscool (talk) 14:28, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

You are right. All the "Rosa" info is in there. It is just not cited. That is what I was going on about. I completely deny it is a POV. It is a pointing to documentation. That is very different. I could have a Point of View that Columbus was a Martian based on no documentation at all. That would be a POV. What I have been insisting on has been in showing what the overlooked documentation points to. In Rosa's books it is very clear that the documentation in Portugal points to another story than the one we have been fed. True, the books are only in Portuguese and Spanish and not known worldwide. Because you are unable to read them, that does not make them unworthy or unreliable. Do you find Morison's description of Filipa's situation more reliable? Just saying.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 16:42, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

BTW, Rosa was the first historian to show what the meaning of the Portuguese "comendadora" was and the first to show that the "All Saints" Monastery was a commendary for the elite members of the Portuguese Military Order of Santiago. http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordem_de_santiago / this is not a meaningless fact as it pertains to the wife of the future discvoverer. You can verify these things for yourself. I do not see that it is a POV to let the facts speak for themselves. Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 16:50, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

How do they meet our criteria for reliability at WP:RS? I believe that what you mean by reliable is not what we mean by reliable. Dougweller (talk) 20:02, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I find it amazing that you can both use Rosa as a source for the information in this article and then also describe him as an unreliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.16.51.158 (talk) 15:08, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I find it amazing that you think you can continue to sockpuppet. Do you think using an IP address that traces to Duke University makes anyone think that you are not Rosa? Besides 152.16.51.158 (Duke University) and Colon-el-Nuevo, how many other accounts do you have, Mr. Rosa? —Diiscool (talk) 15:38, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

This one: 71.111.202.252 (Durham, N.C.)? You have a serious conflict of interest with this subject. —Diiscool (talk) 22:00, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

There is no conflict of interest in pointing out stupidity. Morison INVENTED his story about Filipa Moniz. No matter how often I point this out, you refuse to modify the article. Filipa Moniz and her mother Isabel Moniz and her brother Bartolomeu Perestrelo were nobles in Portugal. Filipa Moniz was never destitute nor her family. Filipa was a comendadora in All Saints meaning she was an ELITE member of the Portuguese Knightly Order of Santiago. She lived in this place all expenses paid just like the other comendadoras lived including Ana de Mendonça, John II's Mistress. Morison invented his story and the documentation shows that. Morison is the unreliable source not only for Filipa but for the whole Columbus narrative.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 05:03, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

The COI is in adding material you've written. You can suggest it on talk pages but should not be adding text sourced to material written by you. Dougweller (talk) 08:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Dougweller, I have for 7 years now tried to keep these pages related to Admiral Cristobal Colon from being filled with fantastic but useless "inventions" of previous historians but I understand that it will take time for the perceived "history" to change and be replaced by the actual history. It is not my fault that others do not wish to learn about the new information that has become available in the last 20 years and insist on telling old man tales from dead historians who had neither the know-how nor the ways to get at the info that we have available today. They are all like David41, stuck in the past with Morison's book, followed closely by Taviani, both of who completly invented the Portuguese life of a weaver Colombo and deny the real life of the noble Admiral Colon and his Portuguese family, his expert navigation, his schooling, his secret mission and his close ties to the court of Portugal and its nobles. Time will fix this, even if I am unable to do it here, I can maintain an eye out for complete lies and insist that they be fixed. For a long time people wrote that before Admiral Colon sailed west, the world was believed to be flat. This BS is finally out of the Cristobal Colon history, but much more BS will be cleaned up as COLON. La Historia Nunca Contada, makes it into other languages. It's a simple matter of time. The pages of Admiral Colon's in-laws being added will slowly shed light on just who the person who sailed the Ocean Blue in 1492 was. It is guilt by association. No peasant in 1479 could marry Filipa Moniz. It was as impossible for a peasant to marry a noble as it was for a freed negro to marry Robert E. Lee's sister. It just didn't happen, no matter how Disneyish Morison wants to make it and this is reason enough to say that Colon never was Colombo. You cannot have the daughter of a Captain and sister of a Captain whose other sister married another Captain Pedro Correia da Cunha - who was also a Royal Bodyguard - and who herself was living all-expenses paid in an elite monastery of an elite Military and Knightly Order, go off and marry a peasant nobody washed ashore naked, homeless, with no job, no money, no posts, no schooling and who had never stepped in a royal court before that day. The mistake that the Genoese falsifiers made was to not present us with a noble Colombo. Had they done so then we never would have been tipped off to the lie a Colombo being the same person as the secretive Colon.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 20:48, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

You know what the funny thing, about the " Origin theories of Christopher Columbus" ?

Even though all the contemporary chronicles and the majority of modern and past historians state he was from Genoa, [1] some non-historians (an information technology analyst [2], an engineer [3], an economist [4], a lawyer [5] [...]) have elaborated alternative hypotheses. They are the new voice of God. What are the historians ? Historians ? Old stuff. Today ? This is the generation of Manuel Rosa. --2.33.180.85 (talk) 09:18, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Morison ? INVENTED ? INVENTED ? Morison. What ? The leading North American authority, Admiral Samuel Eliot Morison, the Harvard historian, was the most distinguished writer on Columbus (with Taviani), the author of a multi-volume biography, and was himself a sailor who retraced Columbus’s route across the Atlantic. In his popular book "Admiral of the ocean sea: a life of Christopher Columbus" written in 1942, he writes : The story starts in Genoa with Discoverer's parents.

The History to the Historians.

Manuel Rosa is the latest to join generations of Columbus' "birthers." A Portuguese computer analyst... His sources are unreliable. --2.33.180.74 (talk) 08:36, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Morison Invented most of his book because he knew NOTHING about Portugal's history. He is not based on facts. Case in point, Morison stated that the ancient statue at Corvo island was a mere costal rock formation that the "idiot" Portuguese sailors confused with a statue just like Morison did when he sailed there. Morison did not know that the statue had been ordered destroyed by King Manuel I in the early 1500s because he didn't do his homework as a "historian". Morison invented that Filipa was paying "convent bills" which is completely wrong and stupid since the Monastery of All Saints was a comendary of the Military Order of Santiago endowed with lands, rents and royal money to not only support itself but to be very profitable to the point of being able to afford the building a brand new Monastery called Santos-o-Novo which the Comendadoras occupied in 1490, leaving the old All Saints (Santos-o-Velho) as a palace for the king. ( http://coromaterdei.no.sapo.pt/santos.htm ) Santos-o-Velho was given to the Santiago order in 1194 by King Sancho I and was used for the purpose of housing the "wives, widows and daughters" of the Knights of Santiago. It housed them RENT FREE. Only someone who is intent in whitewashing history would keep denying these facts. Only someone who knows NOTHING about Portuguese history, knows nothing about the class destinctions of the old kingdom and old societies, who knows nothing about what it meant to be from the regulated NOBILITY class, would insist in forcing a marriage between an Elite Comendadora of Santiago with a poor, bankrupt, useless idiot weaver from Genoa, as this story continously insists. Please find in Genoa a NOBLE Colombo capable of marrying such an Elite lady whose marriage King John II HAD TO AUTHORIZE as was required by the Rules of the Order of Santiago to which Filipa belonged and where John II was grandmaster, or stop supporting a Fantasy tale worthy of Walt Disney that a wool-weaver married a comendadora of Santiago. We have surpassed far beyond Morison's fantastic dream. We are now unravelling reality if you wish to keep living in the dream so be it, but stop trying to trick others into believing it was real.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 13:44, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

He won Pulitzer Prizes for Admiral of the Ocean Sea.

Morison was a historian, Rosa an IT person. The History to the Historians. --2.33.180.85 (talk) 15:00, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, David41, Morison was titled a "historian" and you are also degreed historian, enough said. Apparently the "trained" historians loose their capability to think critically and to question the fables they have been taught in their History classes. Nicolaus Copernicus faced a whole world of naysayers, so-called "Experts" trained in Astronomy who were all wrong. Thank God we have an IT guy who has a brain to counter those "Historians" like you who have no capability to discern between fact and fantasy and Morison is the epitome of fantasy in this case followed close behind by a Tavianni who fantasized not only that Colombo was Admiral Colon, but even that Genoa was the CENTER of new seagoing exploration in the 1400s. Apparently Tavianni had never heard that the Portuguese were the ones exploring the Atlantic in the 1400s and that Lisbon was the center of new navigation in those days. Morison fantasized that a peasant weaver Colombo had married an elite comendadora in Portugal because she was already "old" and could not afford to feed herself or "pay convent bills" when in fact the Comendadora was an elite position inside the Order of Santiago where they had all their expenses paid and managed the order's resources and properties and for her to marry required the Master to allow her to marry and this would only happen if the Master saw it to his benefit to have such a Comendadora contract marriage becasue the guy she was marrying was an elite noble and very important to the crown of Portugal. Go read, maybe you will learn something instead of repeating worng information like the other parrots have done.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 14:22, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

All serious scholars and documents agree, that Columbus was the son of a Genoese weaver; the first person to argue the case for Columbus' birth in Calvi, in the mid-19th century, was a "credulous churchman." See also: Professor Roger Caratini. (He was the greatest French historian of his generation.)

• The historian Bartolomé de las Casas, whose father traveled with Columbus on his second journey and who personally knew Columbus' sons.
• The historian Gonzalo Fernández de Oviedo y Valdés, writes that Domenico Colombo was the Admiral's father.
• The historian Antonio Gallo who knew the Columbus family, writes "Christopher and Bartholomew Columbus, brothers, of the Ligurian nation, sprung from plebeian parentage."
• The historian Agostino Giustiniani, a contemporary of Columbus, writes "Christopher Columbus, of "patria Genuensis," "born in Genoa," was of "Vilibus ortus parentibus," meaning "of humble birth," and his father was a "carminatore," or wool carder."
• The historian Andres Bernaldez who knew him personally, said he was from Liguria but did not identify the town.
• Pedro de Arana, a cousin of Columbus's Spanish mistress, testified that he knew Columbus was from Genoa.
• The historian Rui de Pina, who knew him personally, writes: "Christovan Colombo italiano."

[...] [...] [...] [...] Words are very unnecessary, dear " credulous churchman " --2.33.180.100 (talk) 23:52, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

• Dilettantes are Dilettantes.
• Historians are Historians.

= Different categories. = Good Fables. End of conversation. --2.33.180.100 (talk) 00:10, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Funny, I suppose that "historians" can never be wrong? Oh right, jeesh they are soooooo always correct... Never pressed for time, never skipping documents they cannot read, never plagiarizing, never touting old wives tales as fact,..never...ohh umm...this is soo embarassing. Do I recall being taught from textbooks written by historians that Columbus discovered America? Really? Neat little packages. Oh, and I guess I've -never- heard of "accredited" or "expert" historians having discussions (fights?) about some particular or another..? Or seeing "oops we goofed" being published, in fact more than a few times due to research by *amateur* historians. Glad to see that all the world only exists because of *experts* degree'd in some fancy "ism" or another. Nope, never heard of someone from outside the specialty making critical contributions. Shameless hordes, they should quietly go tend the crops...and let the experts "discover" the truth. Hell, why use Wikipedia when The Truth can only be found in Printed Books. Yeah, use my IP address, I'm more than happy to share my name.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.102.241 (talk) 09:53, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Bartolomeu Perestrelo's Family

In order to understand Admiral Colón's status in 1479, it is important to understand who he married in 1479. It is also important to understand the customs of his day as well as the bars that existed between nobility and peasants. For that reason I place here the descendants of Colón's father-in-law and who they married. Bartolomeu Perestrelo was a Portuguese-born high noble whose Italian ancestors included the Count Fillipone Langosco, Ruler of Pavia. He was uncle to John II's Mistress, brother-in-law to King Duarte's "nanny" and a Knight of Santiago, member of Prince Henry the Navigator's Household and brother-in-law the the Comendadora-Major of Santiago, Violante Nogueira. His children partnered with the following high Portuguese nobles:

• Branca Dias Perestrelo with D. Pedro de Noronha (Grandson of Kings of Portugal and Spain)
• Filipa de Mendonça married João Teixeira, son of Tristão Vaz Teixeira, First Captain of Machico, Madeira
• Catarina Furtado Mendonça married Mem Rodrigues de Vasconcelos, (Spanish royal blood) Knight of Prince Fernando's Household and Judge for the City of Funchal
• Izeu Perestrelo wife of Pedro Correia da Cunha, First Captain of Graciosa Island in the Azores and one of King John II's twenty-five bodyguards (descendant of King Afonso III of Portugal)
• Bartolomeu Perestrelo II, Third Captain of Porto Santo, married Guiomar Teixeira, daughter of Tristão Vaz Teixeira, First Captain of Machico, Madeira
• Filipa Moniz married Cristoforo Colombo, peasant wool-weaver shipwrecked in Portugal in August 1476.

Now lets look at some of the Grandchildren of Bartolomeu Perestrelo, thus the future "Admiral" Colón's nieces and nephews, and who they married:

• D. João de Noronha, o Velho, Mayor of Óbidos married D. Filipa de Castro (Portuguese Royal blood)
• D. Pedro de Noronha, Lord of Cadaval, Comendador-Major of Santiago, King John II's Lord Chamberlain married Catarina de Tavora (Spanish royal blood)
• D. Isabel de Noronha married D. João de Bragança, Marquis of Montemor-o-Novo, great-grandson of King John I of Portugal
• D. Inês de Noronha married D. João de Almeida, Second Count of Abrantes, (descendant of King Pedro I of Portugal)
• D. Catarina de Noronha married D. Lopo de Albuquerque, First Count Penamacor, King Afonso's Chamberlain and Captain of the Royal Guard (descendant of King Dinis I of Portugal)
• D. Fernando de Noronha married Constança de Albuquerque (descendant of King Dinis I of Portugal)
• Constança de Mendonça de Vasconcelos married Álvaro de Ornelas de Saavedra (Spanish royal blood)
• Heitor Mendes de Vasconcelos married Catarina Correia de Lacerda (Portuguese royal blood)
• Yolanda ou Solanda Teixeira married Bartolomeu Perestrelo Fourth Captain of Porto Santo
• Polycena de Vasconcelos married Henrique Teixeira (Portuguese royal blood)
• Jorge Correia da Cunha married Leonor de Melo (Spanish royal blood)
• Bartolomeu Perestrelo, Fourth Captain of Porto Santo, married Aldonça Rodrigues da Camara, granddaughter of Captain Zarco of Funchal, Madeira
• D. Diego Colón, married María de Toledo y Rojas, Spanish royal blood and cousin of King Fernando who was married to the famous Queen Isabel!!!!!!

Filpa Moniz's son married the King of Spain's cousin!!!! The facts are what they are.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 00:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Requesting Editors Who Wish to Resolve/Revamp Article

Requesting an uninvolved editor to review the additions to this page and possibly rewrite or redo the article. 19:01, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

This article is about Filipa Moniz, a lady who's only fame is that she married Christopher Columbus. However, the details of her life, as long as they are documented through available sources, should be included. I am trying to add new information that better highlights Filipa's life, her social position and family connections in Portugal. To do that, I have included material gathered from various sources including Portuguese genealogies, history books and academic publications. Therefore, I feel that there is no need in censoring these details as David1941 continuously tries to do.

Many of these sources are in Portuguese, which I admit is not readily available to non-Portuguese readers, however, one would expect that the Portuguese books contain details that for the most part carry higher accuracy relating to Portuguese subjects and historical figures, than books written by non-Portuguese, or by those who never delved into the specific subject.

In regards to Filipa's social position, one must take into account her father's elite status as well as her whole family's posts, positions, titles and status. As many know, nobility was not just a description of someone. Furthermore, Filipa's connection to the Portuguese Military Order of Santiago is paramount to her identity and life. Members of Santiago were the elite nobles of the kingdom and had to folow the order's rules and regulations. In this subject, one must look to Prof. Joel Silva Ferreira Mata who spent decades researching the Santiago order and has written much especially about the All-Saints "Commandery" where Filipa lived. All these references I have added to the article.

I have also added an image of the place she was buried at:

• 
  Carmo Convent in Lisbon showing location of the Capela da Piedade.

The Editor named 2.33.180.100, alias Davide1941, alias Davide41 is self-described as a historian and teacher linked to Roma University, and is acting like the protector of a static Filipa page where no knew information should be added.

I feel the elements I have added are important and pertinent to a well-rounded article about Filipa Moniz. I would ask that some other editor take over this task to edit, re-write or revamp the article.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 16:54, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

That really isn't the purpose of an RfC. I will note that a lot of the issues are around sources, specifically Manuel Rosa. Dougweller (talk) 19:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I recreated the RfC with a more narrow and specific request for comment as relates to proper sourcing. It's clear from the user's posts on this talk page and in his request on the Request board the this user is looking for additional comments from other editors on the debate regarding his inclusion of alternative views in this article. Coastside (talk)

COLÓN. La Historia Nunca Contada is also published in Poland as Kolumb Historia Nieznana the book met with approval by historians "Christopher Columbus. He could not be the origin of Genoese weaver, as we learned so far in history class, because then his story would be too many miraculous coincidences. Well, a weaver from Genoa, who in his own country he could not write, suddenly learns to speak and write well in Portuguese, and later the Castilian. In Portugal, marries a woman connected with the royal family, he is advising kings and they handsomely reward him even before the discovery. History of Columbus as a weaver from Genoa, was finally buried in 2006"... They remain extremely impressed by the sources of hard work, made by the author of twenty-one years of research.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 06:08, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

• I removed my previous comment about a source, because I'm not sure now that is what the RFC was about.. so what _exactly_ is this RFC supposed to resolve? What conflict? — raekyt 11:00, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Resolve/Revamp Article

Requesting an uninvolved editor to review the additions made to this article and possibly rewrite or redo the article. The editor who keeps reverting the article seems to be unwilling to add any new sourced information. Please see the "Requesting Editors Who Wish to Resolve/Revamp Article" entry on the this page this one for more detailsColon-el-Nuevo (talk) 19:27, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Paolo Emilio Taviani & Samuel Eliot Morison on a sinking ship

It is a sign of the times brought on by Manuel Rosa's research that tomorrow, Professor Manuela Mendonça, Professor at University of Lisbon and the President of the Portuguese Academy of History, will talk at a congress in Genoa in honor of Paolo Emilio Taviani: http://www.sturzo.it/aree/studi-e-ricerche/progetti-in-corso/taviani/convegno-internazionale-e-presentazione-della-nuova-raccolta-colombiana - her talk is titled «Cristóvão Colón: um navigator da casa real portuguêsa?» Cristóvão Colón: a navigator of the Royal House of Portugal? Note not Colombo nor Columbus, but Colon, as Manuel Rosa had always stated the discoverer's correct name to be. The Genoese "house of cards" begins to crumble, and all during an event to honor Taviani, the peddler of an illiterate peasant wool-weaving Colombo.Colon-el-Nuevo (talk) 17:22, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Manuel Rosa Quoted Without Attribution

I find it interesting how everything on this article was presented for the first time by Manuel Rosa in his books, yet there is not attribution for any of it, including the images!!! Go figure — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.15.33.47 (talk) 05:23, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

The images are credited on their respective Wikimedia Commons pages. We don't put credits on the photos in Wikipedia itself. See WP:CREDITS. I believe you are very familiar with all of the issues regarding Manuel Rosa and this article. Hiding behind an IP address does nothing to help your credibility. See WP:SOCK. —Diiscool (talk) 15:54, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

An IP address geolocating to Durham, where Duke University is. Not necessarily Rosa of course, could be a friend. Dougweller (talk) 17:15, 24 February 2015 (UTC)