Talk:Fiat 509

Automobiles Low‑importance

	Cars portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Automobiles, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of automobiles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AutomobilesWikipedia:WikiProject AutomobilesTemplate:WikiProject AutomobilesAutomobile articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Brands Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Brands, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of brands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BrandsWikipedia:WikiProject BrandsTemplate:WikiProject BrandsBrands articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Units

As per MOS:UNIT and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Automobiles/Conventions#Power_and_torque, customary units (non-SI metric in this case) may be used for older cars. This is an older car. I suggest checking out it:Fiat 509, fr:Fiat 509, sv:Fiat 509, and so on to see that metric countries are exclusively using metric horsepower when describing the 509. Are we also going to rename Fiat 24-32 HP "Fiat 17.7-23.5 kW"? Mr.choppers | ✎ 16:50, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia:WikiProject Automobiles/Conventions states: We use the standard International System of Units (SI) describing automobiles, and will generally follow the SI writing style. Do not conflate metric with SI, the SI is updated continually and older metric units are dropped from the SI. (mmHg is metric but the SI unit for pressure is the Pascal). Quote: The Power and torque figures should usually be written in metric form with the imperial conversion in parentheses. Metric measurements of power should be expressed in kilowatts (kW). Metric horsepower (pferdestärke, PS) may be included for older vehicles. Metric measurements of torque should be expressed in Newton metres (N·m). You are placing a metric unit first instead of an SI unit when reverting my edits. No one is suggesting we change the name of the vehicle. Avi8tor (talk) 12:51, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When this car was built, no one used kW. Since horsepower are still widely used across the entire world, there is no need to lead with an anachronistic unit. I again ask you to check out the Italian, French, and Swedish language pages - they do not even use kW at all. See the table at WikiProject Automobiles; it includes leading with horsepower specifically for older cars. If horsepower was an obscure and no longer understood unit I would absolutely agree with you (which is why kgm is not included as an option for metric data, even when it is the original unit).

Examples:

Home market	Power	Torque
Metric	75 kW (101 hp) or 100 PS (74 kW; 99 hp)	180 newton-metres (133 lb⋅ft)
United States	101 hp (75 kW)	130 lb⋅ft (176 N⋅m)
Great Britain	101 bhp (75 kW)	130 lb⋅ft (176 N⋅m)

Mr.choppers | ✎ 16:30, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, this does follow the MOS:UNIT guidelines: the primary units chosen will be SI units (such as kilograms), non-SI units officially accepted for use with the SI, or such other units as are conventional in reliable-source discussions of the article topic. When discussing the Fiat 509, all sources (period or current) use metric hp when discussing this car. Mr.choppers | ✎ 16:49, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]