Talk:Fermented bean curd

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Question

When the liquid gets low in a jar of pickled tofu, I add a small amount of sake (rice wine). Is this a normal thing to do? I think I was advised years ago to do that by someone from China. Badagnani 07:46, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

This isn't really the area to discuss this. You might want to use the reference desk next time. Other than that, you should probably use rice baijiu if you're adding liquid back into the jar. Sake is a rice wine, but as you can see, rice wine much like any other category of alcoholic beverage like scotch, beer, or even wine is broad and not interchangeable and sake is never used in fermenting tofu. It would be like adding white wine into a bottle of balsamic vinegar because you're running low. --76.214.234.65 17:16, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe the question is relevant because it will allow us to improve the article. Some jars of pickled tofu have "rice wine" in the ingredients and I assumed it was mijiu that was used for this purpose, not rice baijiu. Badagnani 19:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Typically sake is around 12-16% ABV while baijiu is around 40-60%. So sake would probably not be as effective as a preservative. Dforest (talk) 01:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a fermented product so I believe the wine is probably added for flavor purposes, not as a preservative. Badagnani (talk) 02:29, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

If that is the case, I wonder why it would be necessary to add anything at all. Dforest (talk) 06:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Need photo of jar

Need photo of a jar of this. Badagnani 08:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Acknowledged Hmm... (talk) 23:57, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Lufu

Is this the same as Lufu (food)? Dforest (talk) 06:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe that's a regional style of 豆腐乳? Badagnani (talk) 06:10, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

It's possible. The picture looks similar. It's something to research. Dforest (talk) 06:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Substitution of "milk" for "dairy"

"Dairy" seems better than "milk" because this is not a liquid substance. Badagnani (talk) 06:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Right, but 乳 is used in plenty of compound words, like rubing & rulao. I think dairy is a bit of a stretch from its root meaning. Dforest (talk) 06:35, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Red date note

^ The Hwang Ryh Shang Company of Taiwan, a major producer of pickled tofu, mislabels this ingredient as "red date" (jujube) on the English-language list of ingredients on its product labels[1], although the Chinese list of ingredients on the same product lists 紅糟 (red yeast rice).

This is obviously a translation error, as 糟 (zāo) is a near homophone of 枣 (zăo). Is it necessary to have this in the article? Dforest (talk) 06:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The characters don't resemble one another and the translation error is widespread, thus meriting a footnote. Badagnani (talk) 06:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, if it is in fact widespread, it may be useful. Though I can attest that import food labels are often not translated nor proofread very well in general; if we listed every little error there would be a lot of footnotes. Anyway, it may be worthwhile to note that its a homophone. Dforest (talk) 06:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how the mistranslation could have happened due to it being a homophone unless the ingredients were read out to the typist verbally. Regarding the ingredients on the labels of red doufu ru, check some when you go to the Asian grocery store the next time. It seems that this error has gone on for years--nobody seems to notice, or else the company is falsifying their ingredient list by listing jujube instead of red yeast rice. Whatever the case, it's poor business practice in my opinion. Badagnani (talk) 07:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree it's unfortunate they don't proofread these things better. Several times I have seen import food labels omit ingredients entirely from their English translations. In some cases I've even considered alerting the authorities about it. Now to get back on topic, I think red lees would be a better translation. Dforest (talk) 07:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

A better translation of what? Badagnani (talk) 07:46, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, 紅糟; it was "red yeast rice". According to my dictionary 糟 is lees. Dforest (talk) 07:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Requested Move

I started the move. I wanted to move "Pickled tofu" to "Fermented bean curd", but both pages already existed so I began the A>C,delete B,C>B, delete A process. The reason for move is that http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia/importalert_73.html and my visits to various Chinatowns suggest that the more common English translation of this tasty food item is Fermented bean curd and not pickled tofu. 368,000 Google results for fermented bean curd vs. 8,260 for "pickled tofu"--Hmm... (talk) 18:06, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose move pending further research and discussion. Badagnani (talk) 07:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
• Personally I would prefer moving/merging both to Preserved tofu. Tofu over bean curd as Tofu is the prefered name for the parent article. Pickling and fermenting are both production techniques, to use either in the title would suggest that one was more important than the other, when both are infact needed. KTo288 (talk) 20:12, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
• Although I agree that there are various names for this food item due to its ubiquity throughout Asia, I suggest that English Wikipedia should identify this food item by the English term most commonly used by the Asian manufacturers: fermented bean curd (See FDA link above). This term will be most beneficial for Western consumers as they will most likely find this item labeled with this term on the shelves of their local Asian grocery or the foreign food section of their supermarket. The listed references also suggest this term and *sufu*, which is the Chinese name. Moreover, I have never seen the term pickled tofu other than on Wikipedia or online web blogs (that presumably obtained their research from Wikipedia). Regarding the relationship with tofu, one should not lump terms together simply because one derives from the other. For example, cheese is derived from milk, but we do not call cheese fermented milk curds or pickled milk. Cheese is its own unique term as fermented bean curd is. Hmm... (talk) 21:12, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
  • I take it this is a North American supermarket. Looked at the tins in my larder, which are from China and that was no help, it just said "red bean curd" on the label. Next time I'm in Chinatown in London, I'll check to see if the experience of Western consumers here in the UK tallies with that in the US. I like your analogy with milk and cheese, in which case the proper and unique name for this article should be Furǔ.
• Comment - Where is the proof of this? For example, Google search results, photos of this item with Chinese and English names, etc. Keep in mind that all tofu is fermented in order to turn it from soymilk to tofu, and that other forms of tofu such as Taiwanese stinky tofu are re-fermented. Thus, the English name "fermented tofu" is doubly confusing. Pickled tofu is clear because it's in a jar, in salty liquid. Badagnani (talk) 00:22, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Results from random image searches do not provide a comprehensive representation of all terms used by Asian exporters. The FDA link above shows multiple manufacturers using this term and provides a better assessment of terms used. However, I have found some instances of English labeled jars. [1] [2] [3] As you can see, the term fermented bean curd is by no means an accepted industry standard, but is a fairly common term. Also please note that tofu is not fermented --there is no digestion by microorganisms under anaerobic conditions. In tofu, soybean curds are chemically destabilized and pressed together with no processing and, consequently, are quite perishable. Moreover, unlike pickling, the majority of the digestion for fermented bean curds occur through fungi digestion while not soaked in brine. The major function of the brine is flavor enhancement. Here is another USDA release regarding safe lead levels that label the food item as fermented bean curds. [4] Hmm... (talk) 04:43, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

• Comment - Several of the images (and the jar in my refrigerator) call it "preserved," not "fermented." Badagnani (talk) 05:06, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I suggest that the next time you go out to buy this item, go to several Asian stores and then tally all the terms used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hmm... (talk • contribs) 22:57, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

• TallyA tally of one supermarket in North London, of eight product lines, all used the term bean curd, three were described as preserved bean curd, while the others used descriptive names, such as red and spicy. Seems to suggest that preserved bean curd is the prefered term here to, will see if the same agreement appears in other supermarkets.KTo288 (talk) 17:05, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

• Good work. Hmm... (talk) 21:18, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

In Okinawa (豆腐よう)

Here in Okinawa there is a local kind of fermented tofu called "tofuyo" (豆腐よう or 豆腐餻). It doesn't have an English article but it does have a Japanese one. — Hippietrail (talk) 15:08, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Japanese tofu misozuke

Is "tofu misozuke" a Japanese version of fermented bean curd? If so, it should probably be added to this article. 173.89.236.187 (talk) 02:39, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Proposed Project Outline

From Fermented bean curd

Chemical Processing

http://www.sciencedirect.com.ezproxy.library.ubc.ca/science/article/pii/S0168160500005237

Health/Nutrition

http://pubs.acs.org.ezproxy.library.ubc.ca/doi/abs/10.1021/jf501772s http://www.sciencedirect.com.ezproxy.library.ubc.ca/science/article/pii/S0308814605000336

Cultural relevance

Origin

https://books.google.ca/books?id=ltqO3LrvaE0C&pg=PA195&dq=fermented+bean+curd&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjD89742aPLAhVQwGMKHf1PBM8Q6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=fermented%20bean%20curd&f=false

current use

"sufu"

the article mentions sufu without explanation What is it? --142.163.195.111 (talk) 17:39, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - FA22 - Sect 200 - Thu

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Olivia0831 (article contribs).

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