Talk:Fereydunshahr

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It is not very nice to deny the existence of Iranian Georgians even in their center! Please stop this crusade against the Iranian Georgians! Babakexorramdin 19:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no crusade, stop being paranoid. This is a matter of WP:RS. A random blog is not a reliable source, and may even be considered linkspamming. The Behnam 19:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I offered you many many sources. And still it is amazing that your crusade is selectively pointed towards Georgians!

If you despite all these sources deny the existence of Iranian georgians, then I consider this as a serious insult. Stop vandalzing my editions, It is very exhasuting what you are doing. Babakexorramdin 19:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Iranian Georgians

Behnam, pejman, Mohammed, Azerbaijani and other ethnic supremacist and haters of the Iranian Georgians.

If you need books here they are

Muliani, S. (2001) Jaygah-e Gorjiha dar Tarikh va Farhang va Tammadon-e Iran. Esfahan: Yekta [The Georgians’ position in the Iranian history and civilization]

Rahimi, M.M. (2001) Gorjiha-ye Iran; Fereydunshahr. Esfahan: Yekta [The Georgians of Iran; Fereydunshahr]

Sepiani, M. (1979) Iranian-e Gorji. Esfahan: Arash [Georgian Iranians]

In addition read Esfahan's tourist exhibition, which mentiones the Georgians from Fereydunshahr and Fereydan

 The report of this exhibition is available in the web site of the Iranian Cultural Heritage News agency at:

http://www.chn.ir/news/?Section=1&id=12497

And the report about Saakashvili's visit to fereydunshahr puttting flower on the graves of the IRANIAN GEORGIAN martyrs' graves.:http://www.iran-newspaper.com/1383/830420/html/internal.htm

Cheers. Again do not dare to deny the existance of Iranian Georgians. Everybody in Ostan-e Esfahan know it, we are not talking about LA TV. we are talking seriously.

cheers. Babakexorramdin 19:52, 16 February 2007 (UTC)~

Links

Put the actual refs in the article, don't link the article to the talk page where the refs are. The Behnam 20:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Behnam I am not very technical, please do it for me, as I do not know these things. This shows the devotion to Iran and proves that I was wrong that you have something against the Iranian Georgians. Thanks for your efforts Babakexorramdin 20:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I can add them. I didn't realize it was a technical problem. For the future, consider reading through Wikipedia:Citing_sources and related help documentation so that you can add sources on your own. The Behnam 20:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok thanks Babakexorramdin 20:06, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which source specifically contains the information about the largest population of ethnic Georgians? I don't which one to add. The Behnam 20:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All sources countain this info. Babakexorramdin 22:35, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

comment

Fereydoon Shahr has a lot of Bakhtiari and also some Armenian speakers. Although I recognize there are some Georgian speakers but the main language used is now Persian by everyone there. --alidoostzadeh 20:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

wanted to say that I am very happy persons like you are around. I also thank you for your support to the truth. It was also very nice of you knowing that aside georgian, also bakhtiari and Armenian is used in fereydunshahr county, however the city and the towns and villages which i mentioned still speak Georgian. The sources I mentioned and a fieldwork to the region shows still that georgian is the dominant language in those areas. I have also read some other of your editions. I meet forward to read more from you and maybe meet you in real time. Please feel free to contact me at my yahoo anytime Babakexorramdin 23:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ali_doostzadeh"

Bakhtiari is used in the Mugui villages in the southern part of the Fereydunshar county. In The Fereydunshahr city itself the vernacular is still Georgian. Persian is ued Armenian was used in Khong village but as Armenians have left it is replaced by Georgian. In Khoygan there lives still a tny Armenian community as well as in the neighbouring Fereydan county. Moroever there are Turkic-speaking people who come from other parts of fereydan and replaced the Armenians in many places e.g. Sangbaran village. In the older times Georgian served as lingua Franca of this region, but nowadays Persian is used as the interethnic language of the area, but Georgians still know their language and speak it, and in addition many Bakhtiaris (especially the elderly) in Mugui area know Georgian too. Georgian language is undergoing a revival now. Except fereydunshahr Georgian in this county is spoken in Choghurt, Nehzatabad, Sibak ( and to a lesser extent in darband, the village is either deserted or might be deserted soon. In the neighbouring fereydan, georgian is spoken/understood in Buin, Miandasht, Dash Kesan, Aghche, Shaurdi, Afus, Shesh Javan. It was seemingly spoken untill 1925 also in Uzunbolagh and another village which cannot be traced well, probably Baltagh)

Soon many papers on this issue will be published. (insider info as I study this issue very well) Babakexorramdin 22:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ali, are you able to check the sources? I don't have those books, and I don't know much Persian anyway, so really all I'm going to do is add the source. The Behnam 20:10, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Behnam do you realize that this is very insulting? Someone who doesnt know much Persian, asks someone else to check the sources by someone who speaks Persian? It is veru easy to check these sources. send an email to my yahoo account and I will be happy to make papercopies and send them to you Babakexorramdin 22:38, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mean to insult you. It is something I would like to check myself, but lack the language skill. Of course, it wouldn't make sense to double check with the person introducing the sources, but I'm not trying to insult you, I just think it is better procedure. Anyway, are you able to expand this article using the sources? It looks kind of odd having more sources than information. The Behnam 23:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would be glad to offer you the sources on paper. contact my yahoo. Soon Im to USA. I would be happy to expand the article, but to be honest I am tired of editing anymore because of acts of some people (e.g Mohammed, Azerbaijani, Pejman ...) here who vandalize my posts. The more I write, the more I should give sources amd the more the vnadalize and the more I should write down. Were they senseful then I was not obliged to bring so many sources for a small segment of text. Babakexorramdin 00:07, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Babak thanks for the comments. Behnam Jan I do not have access to the papers. He is right that there is Georgian in Freydoonshahr. But there is also Bakhtiari, Armenian, Persian.. the interethnic language is now Persian as Babak mentioned. The Persian wikipedia says the population of the city is 14,000 but I can not find the population of Shahrestan. This link says there are 30,000 Bakhtiaris in Fereydunshahr. [1]. Babak Jan are you Gorji? Just interested to know since I never met one. Thanks. --alidoostzadeh 01:17, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

there may live 30000 Bakhtiaris in the greater Fereydan (Fereydan proper, Fereydunshahr, and chadegan counties) the weblog is about Tiran & Karvan; this is the area between Fereydan and Najaf Abad; in that are the number of Turkicspeakers, Bakhtiaris and Persians are much higher than Georgians, but in the western part of the Esfahan province the picture is different. You can call me a n Iranian Georgian. First I am Iranian, and according to a good Iranian Georgian tradition I love Iran very much. It is easy to meet Iranian Georgians. Every hour leaves a bus from Esfahan to Fereydan and Fereydunshahr. I will be happy if I can introduce you to some people. I know two guys who are very much into history and you will like their company.02:03, 17 February 2007 (UTC)Babakexorramdin 02:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The population of Feyedunshahr county (Shahrestan) is about 41000. That can be checked easily from the Iranian cites. the Population of the city itself is about 20000. I do not know exactly but what definition. Rahimi says that out of 41000 pop of Shahrestan 28000 speak Georgian. During my visit there population of Fereydunshahr city (suburbs not included) was said to be 20000. When I won information in Daran (Fereydan county) the official gave me the information. in Bakhsh Buin-Miandasht a majority of population speaks Georgia; he gave me exact numbers per village/ town. Moreover he gave the info that 90% of Fereydunshahr county speak Georgian. This info is also consistent with the other info given here.

I also have to add that you probably mix Fereydan and Fereydunshahr. Fereydan has been part of the greater Fereydan,. In the greater in this region lived Georgians, Armenians, Bakhtiaris, and Persians. in 1980 Fereydunshahr got separated and in 2003 Chadegan did. In Fereydunshahr county however Georgians are the majority, with a minority of Bakhtiaris, no Persians, and only small numbers of Turkicspeakers and Armenians. Number of Armenians and Turkicspeakers are tiny. In Chadegan the Turkicspeakers are the majority with sizable Persian population. In Fereydan county Georgians, Persians and Turkicspeakers are more or less at the same size, in the past there lived here a rahther large Armenian population too but it is declined. these info could be traced ofcourse from the sources I provided too Babakexorramdin 02:03, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you are getting this stuff straight from those books, by all means, add it to this article. The Behnam 02:06, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I will ask friends from Fereydunshar to write a nice article. But let the war get calmer as it is very frustrating to have to deal with vandalisms by Pejman=mohammed=azer every time. They have also a nice poem on fereydunshahr. Babakexorramdin 02:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Behnam and Babak I found an interesting article [2] Please read it when you have time. --alidoostzadeh 02:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, that seems to settle the language issue, "But these Georgians were gradually absorbed by the surrounding population in Ma@zandara@n, so that today no trace of them exists except in the form of suggestive village names," for the Mazandaran page. The Behnam 03:30, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about Mazandaran province with this regard. But from all the information I have, Georgian is spoken only in those portions of Esfahan province. Iranica is a updated sources and it has 5 interesting articles about Georgian/Georgians/Georgian language written by top experts. --alidoostzadeh 04:18, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was just quoting from the article you linked here. The Behnam 04:29, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes common knowledge was that Goergian was lost in Mazandaran province despite their larger numbers (Shah Abbas settled about 200000 Georgians there), but the recent research showed that the picture is not that simple. e.g. Sepiani (1979 or 1980) said that still elderly spoke Georgian in Mazandaran.One could assume that it has been lost by 2000, but then Barzegar of cultural Heritage did research on Georgians. It is interesting that he focussed on some villages and not on the entire Georgian-root villages. Cultural Heritage of Mazandaran has began a project on the culture of Georgians of Mazandaran. This gave my colleagues the reason to get involved in Mazandaran, and surprizingly it seems that although the genetic research shows that Most Mazandaranis are at least from paternal side Georgian, most of them have become Mazandaranis, buts still a large portion of them are aware of their Georgian background, and his was surprizng: many can speak Georgian; I do not know what this Georgian might be; I have still no info on their speech. It is eveident however that there is a revival there. Unfortunately I had not a chance to study them, please contact me if you are interested and we can study them in cooperation. Babakexorramdin 10:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Babak do you have any online reference for this? --alidoostzadeh 17:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

there might be something in the Iranian Georgian websites and weblogs. The best web site www.katvelebi.com however is hacked by (I assume)PanTurkists. Babakexorramdin 18:12, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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