Talk:Felek al-Din Dündar

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Felek al-Din Dündar/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Aintabli (talk · contribs) 17:45, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 11:35, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Will take this on hopefully within the next few days/week. Constantine ✍ 11:35, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

As usual, the article is fairly well written and well referenced. Some questions, suggestions, and nitpicks follow:

• was Beg of Hamid give a brief gloss of Beg (e.g. ruler) and locate Hamid in southwestern Anatolia

   Done

• in times of internal struggles in the east the average reader won't know that this means the Ilkhanate, or the Ilkhanate's authority in Anatolia; be a bit more direct.

  Tried to clarify.

  Which state faced the troubles? Constantine ✍ 20:23, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

• Would Yunus, Mahmud, Khidr Beg, Hamid Beg, the Grand Mosque of Burdur, the Dündar Bey Medrese/Taşmedrese, Suleiman II warrant redlinks?

  Linked.

• Link Anatolia at the first instance.

   Done

• , where he served Recommend starting a new sentence here.

   Done

• granted him land clarify this is Hamid Beg

   Done

• Mongol invasions and conquests in this context, the full title is somewhat odd; perhaps just 'Mongol conquests'?

  Done. I should've used a piped link.

• Is it the same Hamid Beg who was active in 1240 that rebelled against the Mongols in 1290 and was active as late as 1300? How old was he then?

  Yes, it's the same person. None of the sources specify his age. The gap and the unclear time frame is expected given the lack of detailed historical sources on the dynasty.

• BTW the list of Hamidid rulers in Hamidids contains neither Hamid not Khidr Beg. There's no source there, so I am ready to believe that it is incorrect or out of date, but still the discrepancy should be fixed.

  My general plan when it comes to these kinds of articles is to first sort out the biographical articles and then start editing that of the dynasty. But yeah, it is safe to assume the list is incorrect/missing information. It already skips a few years after Dündar.

• referred to him as as-Sultanu'l-a'zam wa padishahu'l-muazzam sultan-ı selatinu'l-Arab wa'l-Ajam as-Sultan Hamid provide a gloss at least in a footnote

   Done Aintabli (talk) 18:49, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

• The 'Early life and background' is mostly about Dündar's grandfather Hamid, and not about Dündar. Per WP:SS I would recommend condensing it significantly (and creating an article on Hamid Beg in the process would be a good idea).

  Trimmed and linked Hamid Beg.

• Gloss ispahsalar. BTW I discovered that Template:gloss exists that you can use to denote such cases.

   Done

• The latter was easier to defend 'The latter' refers to the 'frontier region with the Byzantine Empire', change to Eğirdir.

   Done

• reparation means something different, 'repair' is correct here or 'renovation'

   Done

• 'nickname' is a bit inaccurate; 'regnal name' or 'honorific name' is better.

  Chose honorific name.

• A few duplicate links, e.g. for the Ilkhanate.

  Removed. Thank you.

• fallen Seljuk rule. 'fallen Seljuk state' or 'defunct Seljuk rule'

   Done

• reenact Ilkhanid authority 'reestablish Ilkhanid authority'

   Done

• where Dündar similar to most Turkmen lords 'where Dündar, like most Turkmen rulers of Anatolia' or similar. Suggest avoiding 'lords' as it has a distinctly Western feudal connotation that does not apply here.

   Done

• Link robe of honor

   Done

• The Ilkhanid authority was at stake following Chupan's departure from Anatolia, and the internal struggles caused by twelve-year-old Abu Sa'id Bahadur Khan's (r. 1316–35) rise to the throne when his father Öljaitü died in December 1316 something is missing here. Perhaps (if I understand the meaning correctly) 'Ilkhanid authority in Anatolia was soon weakened again after Chupan's departure, especially due to the internal struggles caused by the death of Öljaitü and the rise of his twelve-year-old son Abu Sa'id Bahadur Khan's (r. 1316–35) to the throne'?

  Reworded slightly.

• although he did not directly use his name in his silver coins from 1321, Dündar dropped Abu Sa'id's mention does this mean that until 1321 he had Abu Sa'id on his coins? I would state that directly.

   Done

• Then, Dündar ruled over nine cities What year does 'then' refer to?

  In those times.

  Can we be more specific? E.g. 'After 1321' or 'In the 1320s' (whatever is the correct date)?

• 30 thousand per MOS, either '30,000' or 'thirty thousand'.

  Changed to 'thirty thousand'.

• troops and cavalry cavalry are also troops; perhaps 'infantry and cavalry' or 'foot and horse'?

  Oh shoot, that's correct. Replaced with infantry.

• Timurtash pursued him last person named is Mahmud

  Mentioned Dündar and slightly changed wording.

• a short while after the Eshrefid ruler Suleiman's death 'shortly after the death of the Eshrefid ruler Suleiman II'

   Done Aintabli (talk) 19:14, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

• Give ISBN for Bosworth, per the other print sources cited

   Done

• ru:Дюндар-бей Хамидид has more sources referenced, it would be good to at least have a look that nothing major has been left out.

  Checked the page. I can't see any major details that were left out. The Russian article names several more historical sources/historians some of the information found in both articles come from. The Russian version also explains that earlier historians identified Dündar and Hamid Beg as the same person. There is a brief discussion of Dündar's burial place. I have added the relevant source (Üçok) and a few sentences about the speculation on where Dündar's grave is located.

That's it for a first pass. Constantine ✍ 14:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@Cplakidas:, thank you for your patience and meticulous review once again. Let me know if you want me to add the above missing details from the Russian-language version. I will most likely add them later when I return to editing this topic area, but if you feel like these are details that should be added during the review, feel free to point that out. Aintabli (talk) 03:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Status query

Cplakidas, Aintabli, where does this review stand? Is a second pass needed, or further work on the first pass? It's been nearly four weeks since the last post here; it would be great to get this moving again. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:51, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I think I have addressed all the points on my part. Cplakidas is also reviewing Suleiman of Dulkadir, so that might be keeping him from focusing on this review maybe. Aintabli (talk) 15:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

@Aintabli: there's a few minor points for improvement noted above, but otherwise it looks good and I will promote it now. Sorry for the delay in reviewing this. Constantine ✍ 20:23, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Post-GAR notes

I have named "the state" in the lead (the Ilkhanate). I can't replace in those times with any specific period other than it was obviously during Dündar's rule, because it's not specified in the source. Aintabli (talk) 15:18, 28 October 2024 (UTC)