Talk:Fasting in Islam/Archive 1

Archive 1

Answer

• Terrible English: Now I'm not going to point fingers at one person in particular although I would like to but before making an edit, can you at least check to make sure what you wrote makes gramatical sense?

I try, and i get better.

• Empty sections: One sentence does not make a section.

That why it is "stubed"

• Red Links: Don't link to a page that does not exist. Make the page first and then link to it.

I was planing to, other things came in the way. By the way, dont order me, as if that was a wikipedia rule, and i was the only one doing that.

• References to "Islamic fasting": "Islamic fasting" is observed on the of Ashura? Well thanks for clarifying that; I was under the impression that Jewish fasting was practiced on that Islamic holiday.

Yes, Sunnis belive jews where using Jewish fasting on that day. Further, "Islamic fasting" denoters "not ordinary random fasting, but fasting accordin to Islamic Jurisprudence".

• Islamic fasting on the Islamic month of Ramadan: Not only is that gramatically correct, it's redundant. Fasting during Ramadan will suffice.

Again, its not random fasting like "i wont eat fat food today". It extends to water and sex.

• Insufficient explanations: "One may aske a prayer, including a vow to fast if the prayer is accepted." Even if I were to correct the obvious grammar mistakes in that sentence, I still would have no idea what is being talked about there.

Ill try to elaborate on that. I appreciate your kindness. --Striver 01:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Like I said I was not pointing fingers at anyone. I was not ordering you around; the red link thing is just good practice. If you are talking about Islamic fasting, it is unnecessary to refer to it as such in an article entitled sawm / Islamic fasting. joturner 02:19, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think we need Nagari

Even Islam is a major religion of India, the Muslim community there uses the Urdu script and not Nagari, so I think it is safe to remove the version of "Sawm" in nagari. Shukriya, Mar de Sin ^{Talk to me!} 21:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Scripts

All scripts should be removed except for Arabic. This article is about the word Sawm not other word used in other languages instead of Sawm. Szhaider 00:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

But is this not also a page for "fasting" in Islam and not just about the Arabic word? Kitabparast 02:09, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Throughout Persia and the Indian subcontinent, the concept (Sawm) is known as rozah (रोज़ह روزہ) and is known by many other names in other countries. Even though natives of these countries call the Arabic word by another name, they are still practicing fasting and are just as Muslim. I hope this helps. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 02:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You need every chance to desperately label every word with Hindi and Devangari script. The way all the scripts were listed was rather crude and favouring a few languages while ignoring tens of other languages used by Muslims around the word. For some languages only scripts were given without any pronunciation or transliteration. The best way to tackle this problem is removing all scripts or giving only transliteration of the words in different languages without giving any scripts in a new sub-section. Szhaider 03:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I only add Hindi/Urdu scripts where they are relevant. Your first edit only removed the Hindi, not any of the other languages despite India having the second largest Muslim population. The other languages listed all used the Roman script or a modified form of it. I only added what I knew: Hindi and Urdu. If you would like to give transliterations of the other languages, please feel free to do so. I do not know those languages. All the scripts given should be kept. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 03:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I do not know any other languages. Scripts without pronunciations are of no use to the reader. We do not want to turn all articles into lists of scripts to promote our sorry languages. Only Arabic script is relevent to this article. No other script is needed. Transliterations, if available, will do fine. Szhaider 03:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Your current edit is fine. However, if we give the transliteration rozah, it is proper to give the scripts as most other Wikipedia articles do. Also, why did you revert the article to the version before I made an alphabetical sort? You only did the same thing here: Sufism calling it a geographic sort, whatever that means. I only sorted alphabetically, completely justifiable. Allah hafiz, Anupam^Talk 03:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

More details

There should be some information on fasting on certain recommended days. For example, I think that Daud (the prophet) used to fast every second day and Muhammad used to fast on certain days of the week. I'm not sure if the Hadith mention these. I'll check and write something about it. MP (talk) 21:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Drinking

When the article refers to abstainance from "drinking" does it refer to drinking alcoholic beverages, or drinking any liquid at all? That point should probably be clairified in the article. Thanks in advance for the answer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.252.114.218 (talk) 17:18, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

It refers to drinking anything. Drinking alcohol is always forbidden for muslims. Eatcacti 08:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Athletes?

How do top athletes handle fasting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.53.197.12 (talk) 02:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Good question some just keep fasting and evantually faint or get d-hydrated and some just make-up fast after ramadan it is allowed in our religion under some cicumstances.Lil'Khan 00:53, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Kaffara

somebody might want to check, but i was pretty sure that kaffara had to be made for breaking an obligatory fast intentionally (with no valid reason)period, not just for intercourse but for eating intentionally too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.253.179.26 (talk) 00:46, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Revision

What to do if the sun doesn't rise or don't go down in the month? (And what is the source for the answer)

I have tried to address the first two issues in the 'Cleanup Template'. I appreciate the start that other brothers and sisters have made, don't get me wrong, but the grammar, punctuation and syntax were such that it was prohibitive to any clear understanding of the article. The layout was not conducive to a linear comprehension of Sawm, either, so I have begun a re-work of that, too. I was surprised to see so much repetition had been left, despite recent edits having been made.

Insha-allah, I will add a description of the requirement of niyyah (intention) before a fast, because we currently seem to be to using the words 'oath' and 'fast' interchangeably, which is all well and good for Muslim readers who already understand the concept (of niyyah), but is very possibly confusing for non-Muslim readers.

Sister Irem; wives must ask their husbands permission to fast, and, whilst it's rare for a husband to decline, the fact remains. I will not add this, however, until I can cite my sources.

May Allah (SWT) reward us for any work in the future. Any constructive criticism of mine is welcome,

Brother Omar (a.k.a. MU4L 12:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)MU4L), U.K.

I changed the definition to be more objective. - J. M. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.230.48.34 (talk) 15:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

"seeing what is against Islam"

What does this mean?

Article: "In the terminology of Islamic law, Sawm means "to abstain from eating, drinking or seeing what is against Islam, the saying of rude language"."

Specifically, what is "seeing what is against Islam"? Is this a typo? Is it supposed to be "saying what is against Islam"? Or, is this supposed to say something about sexual intercourse? I hope someone can clarify the intended meaning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.126.10.40 (talk) 03:15, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

North Pole fasting?

Is it me or does that section on fasting near the north pole seem completely out of place? It is quite prominent in the article - far too high up considering its relevance, and is also quite large for the small information it conveys. I'm not sure how many muslims there are in a town with less than 3000 inhabitants in a predominantly atheist/christian culture, but i'm guessing it is very very few. Possibly enough of an issue to justify a footnote. Additionally, the format of it is terrible (which admittedly I couldn't tidy up, but it does seem unsightly). —Preceding unsigned comment added by HallucigeniaUK (talk • contribs) 13:36, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

[ṣawm] – an Arabic word or a Muslim concept ?

It is regrettable when sensible arguments are being put forward in a way that makes them uninviting. The author of the above non-signed intervention carrying the title Article is Completly[sic] Wrong! has a point, but (s)he missed the momentum of discussing it. Let me elaborate.

There is no such thing as a holy language. There is basically no difference in terms of holiness between Arabic and the Taa language, both being 'natural languages' spoken by different communities of people, each community considering their own language to be the most perfect and the richest of all languages. Any objection to this statement from an arabophone would be an insult to a Bushman. And we don’t want insults, my dear anonymous, do we ?

Now, a written language may wrongly be considered holy by people who speak it on account of texts produced in this language, texts which are considered to be holy. Of course, a text can obtain the status of being holy, but not the language used to write it down. The reason why Arabic language is in fact being considered by many people as a holy language should be viewed as a 'projection' which has nothing to do with Arabic as a natural language, but has been favoured by the fact that no modern dialect of Arabic is allowed to be written. Then we approach – through the so-called MSA – the language stage in which the Qur’an was written, whereby the mentioned projection should be sought. This discourse is in itself a matter of language planning based on quasi-linguistic [i.e. religious] principles which is of some interest in what follows.

Starting from these premises one should cross out the sentence under the section 'Etymology' saying “Interestingly, the word is also found in the Maltese language.” The word interestingly points to an apparent paradox implying that ṣawm should be restricted to the sphere of Islam. Nothing could be more wrong.

Maltese is an Arabic dialect spoken by Christians. There is indeed nothing holy about Arabic ṣawm – it is just a word to denote this ascetic exercise called “fasting”, a word which in a Muslim context has acquired a connotation of one of the Five Pillars of Islam. As fasting also exists in Christianity, we would find the following sentence in Maltese : nsumu fir-Randan, “we fast during Lent” – the verb in Maltese being sam, “to fast”. And what is lent in Maltese other than the Arabic word ramaḍān ? –in its Maltese garb, of course. Maltese randan has no Islamic connotations whatsoever.

The mentioned sentence is hereby eliminated. Hirpex (talk) 21:14, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Recent edits

See Talk:Ramadan#Recent_edits that recent edits by BuckLava (talk · contribs) are not up to Wikipedia standards. Debresser (talk) 23:21, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Benefits of fasting

Besides its lack of sources and references, this section is written in a non-objective ("Fasting inculcates a sense of fraternity and solidarity"; "It is hard, but it bring those closer to God") and non-lexicographic ("even the poor, needy, and hungry participate in the fast"; "the latter offering more reward than if eating alone") manner. Moreover, it contains blatant syntactic/grammatical flaws (".ninth month of Islam calendar."; "It is hard, but it bring those closer to God").

2001:67C:20A0:B102:C515:9BF9:C0B4:F403 (talk) 11:27, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Empty Sections

We really should not be adding empty sections with absolutely no information in them. And yes, Striver, I was addressing you directly. joturner 23:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind I corrected a few things, especially the section on women and fasting (since when are husbands allowed to prevent thier wives from fasting??!) 'and Allah knows best'. Sister Irem xx 109.149.156.77 (talk) 07:49, 20 June 2015 (UTC)≈≈≈≈

Etymology

I see this statement, "However Islam is the only religion that has retained the outward and spiritual dimensions of fasting throughout the centuries", and I would like to better understand how this relates to Etymology, or is even appropriate for Wikipedia, as written. To me, it is not clear that it belongs here. Shlama b'Mshikha (talk) 17:57, 25 March 2016 (UTC)