Talk:Fascist Italy/Archive 1

Archive 1

Recent edits

Dear IP,

not it is not a state article, as concluded in several pages already.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:18, 26 September 2020 (UTC))

Which "several pages" are those? -- 177.207.54.96 (talk) 23:33, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

E.g. World War II in Yugoslavia, and articles with related WWII topics.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:44, 28 September 2020 (UTC))

Could you please show a discussion in World War II in Yugoslavia which supports your claim? -- 177.158.117.125 (talk) 23:02, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

First an editor started to change links to this article, but after it has been reverted by another user, hence we restored original links in the affected articles.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:41, 30 September 2020 (UTC))

I don't understand what you're saying, again, could you please show a discussion in World War II in Yugoslavia which supports your claim? -- 191.34.233.149 (talk) 19:03, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

So, some users started to replace links to this article, and after it was undone, hence no discussion is necessary, they were restored by status quo ante.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:37, 2 October 2020 (UTC))

So you are saying that your edits on the article are actually the status quo ante? -- 187.58.89.110 (talk) 21:33, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Well, as I noticed in other articles the mass change, and after it was started to be restored, I did it also in a few articles.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:24, 5 October 2020 (UTC))

I'm still not understanding very well what you're saying, are you saying that your edits are the status quo ante? If so, well you will have to provide proof. -- 179.183.231.78 (talk) 22:35, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

So, again some editors started to replace Kingdom of Italy to this article, regarding average links and flags, and after a while it became undone. For proof, just check the article mentioned in the top, it has been changed in 9 August, and after restored.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:10, 9 October 2020 (UTC))

Ah I see what you're saying, an IP changed the links on the infobox to this page and then you reverted it, OK, but how does this support your position? Is there at least any discussion on a talk page regarding this? -- 177.207.146.84 (talk) 23:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

The status quo ante principle, e.g., I did not check entirely any possible earlier discussion.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC))

Well, Category:Fascist states has been added to the page on 1 September 2018, and the page was created back in 2017, so it seems that the previous version is the status quo. -- 177.207.61.7 (talk) 00:25, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Then I could say as well earlier the page did not have that category...pages are continously improving in WP, with mistakes as well on and on, that we correct.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:17, 12 October 2020 (UTC))

The category was in the page for far more time than it wasn't tough, to be honest, you don't seem to have anything to support your edits, at least so far. -- 177.19.87.206 (talk) 23:26, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

You cited now the status quo. Yes I do, explained in more aspects.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:55, 13 October 2020 (UTC))

No, so far you don't, for instance you were claiming that your edits were the status quo but as I showed, they aren't. -- 191.34.184.197 (talk) 22:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

As I pointed out what you showed is not decisive, since I showed that what you showed in that form is as well not that then.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:07, 17 October 2020 (UTC))

I'm not understanding what you're saying, again, you were saying that your edits were the status quo, but as I mentioned, Category:Fascist states was on this page for a long time, frankly, if you can't make a case for your edits I will have to revert them. -- 191.34.234.118 (talk) 23:33, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

I just explained to you. If you are arguing to a very old status quo, the same way I can show an older one, when the category is not present, so don't do it.(KIENGIR (talk) 04:16, 21 October 2020 (UTC))

Again, Category:Fascist states was on this page for a longer time than it wasn't. -- 179.179.166.195 (talk) 20:45, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

This does not change the earlier mentioned.(KIENGIR (talk) 08:18, 25 October 2020 (UTC))

Yes it does, honestly, if you can't make a case for your edits, you should at least stop edit warring. -- 177.19.69.206 (talk) 20:58, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, the situation is not as you describe, everything may be read above.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:46, 29 October 2020 (UTC))

How is it not? It really seems that you are not able to make a case for your edit, your argumentation is becoming circular, again, in that case you should stop edit warring. -- 179.179.166.72 (talk) 07:24, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

It is really not useful if you repeating a failed inference line. Everything may be read above, it should be clear.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:28, 2 November 2020 (UTC))

I will just ask a question I asked before, why is Nazi Germany a state article but this one isn't? As I mentioned on your talk page, the Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany were technically the same entities, by your rationale, Nazi Germany is a government article, yet you say it isn't, I have yet to see you provide an answer to this question. -- 177.159.31.28 (talk) 03:41, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Read the lead, this is an Era of a government article. Nazi Germany article is about the German state between between 1933 and 1945. My rationale does not imply your erroneus observations, sorry.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:15, 4 November 2020 (UTC))

Leads can be easily edited, this doesn't really mean anything, again by your own rationale, Nazi Germany should be a government article because it was technically the same entity as the Weimar Republic. -- 177.159.219.212 (talk) 22:50, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it means and determines the scope as well, and my rationale has been already explained, contrary to your fallacious assertion.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:30, 11 November 2020 (UTC))

Again, leads can be easily changed, and since you seem to have trouble to interpreting, I will just quote the user in the Kingdom of Romania talk page:

"I would liken it more to that of the Hungarian Government of National Unity or Greek 4th of August Regime, which are just governments in the ("modern") Kingdom of Hungary and Kingdom of Greece. They are also not predecessors/successors, but just period of rule in the same country. Like, okay, the "German Reich" is the "same entity" for Weimar/Nazi Germany, but thats large break between them."

"The "legionary state" is just a government within the Kingdom of Romania, just as the aforementioned Hungarian and Greek cases, or even Fascist Italy, which is just a (albeit large) "period" of the Kingdom of Italy, not a "new entity" as the subsequent republic or preceding un-unified Italy which can be seen listed."

There you go, now why is Nazi Germany different when it was technically the same entity as the Weimar Republic, as stated above? If you can't at least provide an answer to this question, then I'm sorry, but your edits will have to be reverted. -- 177.19.94.186 (talk) 22:21, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Sorry this has nothing to do with our discussion, especially you conflate a part of a discussion with your fallacious interpretation, above was already explained that your coin about the Nazi Germany article is why erroneous. Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany are state articles, while this is not. Point. Just because you don't wish to understand, it does not mean it was not demonstrated.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:10, 14 November 2020 (UTC))

LOL this is just ridiculous at this point, frankly don't remove the categories anymore until you can actually make a case for your edits. -- 177.19.118.191 (talk) 04:05, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, everything has been explained, your statement is quite a boomerang, not helpful.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:53, 16 November 2020 (UTC))

Ok, so I decided to ask Havsjö why Nazi Germany is a state article but this one and others are not, the reason, according to him, it is because, even though it was technically the same entity as the Weimar Republic, the Nazis intended to destroy and abolish the republic, when they didn't succeed in doing so through a coup, they decided to do through the democratic system instead, which makes sense, this was not the case here, the Fascists did not abolish the Kingdom, and Mussolini himself was deposed by the King, and deposing Prime Ministers is something the King had power to do before Mussolini as well, this being the case, I concede that this is not a state article, nor is the article of the Hungarian Government of National Unity for that matter, even though it was a puppet government of Nazi Germany. -- 179.183.239.240 (talk) 06:52, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Obrigado (Thank you).(KIENGIR (talk) 03:05, 27 November 2020 (UTC))