Talk:Familias Regnant universe

Wikification

Steven.gilberd - What exactly needs to be changed to wikify this article? I am happy to help but don't understand what needs to be done to it.

Pronunciation

Is the pronunciation of the "Benignity" known? Has the author ever stated or implied the right way to pronounce it? It uses a consonant that is irregularly silenced in English, and so the proper pronunciation can only be guessed in English, and would be impossible to determine for someone without excellent English phonetics. --NotTires

True, but we can make a guess at Moon's intentions. It's based on 'benign', and even better, is not a neologism but a pre-existing English word. The OED has its pronunciation as "(b{shti}{sm}n{shti}gn{shti}t{shti})". (No, I have no idea what that means, it's just copy-paste.) --Gwern (contribs) 17:11 4 February 2008 (GMT)

I've read it phonetically as "be NINE ity" -- DTavona (talk) 02:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Other Political Elements in the Familias World

Additional political powers mentioned in "Rules of Engagement," near the New Texas Militia worlds, and presumably on the far side away from the Familias Regnant systems

- Baltic Confederation

- Emerald Worlds —Preceding unsigned comment added by DTavona (talk • contribs) 02:51, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

 Also others political space entities were mentioned in bypassing./StefanZ.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.69.228.145 (talk) 18:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC) 

R.S.S. Ranks

I'm pretty confused by the ranks in use in the Regular Space Service. There are both Majors and Lieutenant Commanders (the same rank for different services in most rank structures) and there seem to be Commanders but no Captain rank. And what the heck is a pivot? A corporal? My point is, does someone have a table of ranks, and could they toss it into the article? Thanks... Ray Trygstad 19:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, a pivot can't be a corporal, since in one book a corporal is busted to pivot IIRC. --Rhwawn (talk to Rhwawn) 03:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Supposition: It appears to be a hybrid of the US Naval / Marine rank system, likely due to the 'Fleet' terminology and the author's experience in the US Marines. More careful examination of the duties of the characters might differentiate the Navy / Marine split by roles. For the Enlisted Ranks Pivot appears to be the aggregate of PFC, Lance Corporal, and Seaman i.e. a general initial rank. If there was a differentiation of Pivots (I don't recall) then it likely is E-2 vs. E-3 or PFC - Lance Corporal & Seaman Apprentice - Seaman to 'Pivot' and 'Pivot Major'. There are Corporals. 'Petty' and 'Petty Light' are likely to be Naval Ranks Petty Officer Second Class and below it Petty Officer Third Class, with the venerable 'Chiefs' being some gradations of Chief Petty Officers (equivalent to senior NCOs or senior Sergeants in other services).

The officers' ranks appear to follow US Naval practice largely. The insertion of US Marine rank of Major (e.g. Major Pitak) may imply a parallel track (US Navy - Marines; Fleet - Marines; Command Track - Technical) or be simply forced into place to avoid explanations of who ranks whom in complex hierarchies when two people have similar rank (e.g. Hull and Architecture section inside the larger Heavy Maintenance Command). The curious Captain / Commander problem pointed out by Ray Trygstad above probably is equivalent to the Commodore (United States) dilemma. Captain appears to be a title associated with a ship, or a role, not a rank. Thus, a captain would be whatever officer commanded a ship, who could be of any rank. As with Commodore at times in its history, people can come in and out of the title Captain without promotion / demotion, and it also avoids the narrative dilemma of explaining to readers unfamiliar with Captains holding desk jobs that Captain Someone could not be the captain of any ship. A similar dilemma is explained in the article Captain (Naval) for referring to Captain ranks that aren't captain of a ship. It may have been simplest to abolish the rank for narrative clarity. Perhaps Major was inserted and (Lt.) Commander were raised one rank to account for the use of Captain as a role instead of rank below Admiral? --NotTires

Having just read the entire series for the third time (and attempting to figure this all out on the way), we can basically Infer that the officer ranks are as follows-

• Grand Admiral
• Admiral Major
• Admiral Minor
• Commander
• Lieutenant Commander
• Major
• Lieutenant
• Lieutenant junior grade/Jig
• Ensign

However, given Elizabeth Moon's experience in the USMC, it's likely there is at least one more Admiral rank, possibly two (echoing the current USN Flag Ranks). Unfortunately, no more are mentioned. It's also explicit in the text that Commodore is indeed a title, since three different officers are referred to as such: Commander Serrano, Commander Garrivay and Admiral Minor Livadhi. And, as has already been mentioned, it's obvious that "Captain" is a billet, not a rank.

Alas, no such clarity is present with regard to Enlisted ranks. I originally thought "Pivot" was perhaps just a "Private", with the word altered through centuries of change, colloqiualisation etc. And unfortunately, there doesnt seem to be any clarification as to the notion of different ranks for Marines and Fleet personnel, as crew aboard ship seem to hold ranks such as Master Chief, Petty Light, Pivot Major AND Sergeant, Corporal... It's more likely that the ranks have been incorporated into one cohesive rank structure.--Madbrood (talk) 18:18, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree about the Captain being a billet and not a rank. Commodore was mentioned in the same way in "Winning Colors," chapter 12: 'True, commodore was the correct term for someone commanding a battle group, but a battle group was defined as a formation comprising at least two heavy cruisers.'

I had the distinct impression from "Once a Hero" that Major and Lt Commander were equivalent, but this may have been influenced by Major Pitak being a division head. I would add Admiral below Admiral Minor. I'm open to the rankings above.

I, too, and somewhat confused as to the ratings for the pivot and pivot-major. I wondered if they were like the Army's Specialist, and thus part of the Technical track. I also noticed the lack of warrant officers in the command structure, and on occasion, wondered if they weren't the RSS equivalent of Warrants. However, there were times security personnel were mentioned, and their ranks were listed as pivot or pivot-major, dissuaded me of this. I recall Petty-Lights being mentioned, but not petty officers. I would suggest that since there are corporals and sergeants as well as petty-lights, that the division between naval and marine ranks remains at the enlisted level, but that it's blended at the Chief and Master Chief level. Based on that, it may be that pivot is petty officer second class, and pivot major is petty officer first class, and thus equivalent to corporal and sergeant respectively. For example, in "Rules of Engagement," there are two platoons on the SAR ship R.S.S. Shrike; the marines have corporals and sergeants, but they are under Chief Meharry. -- DTavona (talk) 02:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I came across something on another wiki page on military slang. Here's the quote and the link:

"Major — a Captain in command of a ship's Marine detachment, so titled because a ship may have only one Captain, the commanding officer."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Marine_Corps_acronyms_and_expressions#M

I think this confirms Moon's choice to eliminate captain as a rank, and insert Major, especially since, for army/marine/air force equivalents, major equates. Using captain strictly as a billet/role for clarification purposes thus makes sense.

• Commander = colonel
• Lieutenant Commander = lieutenant colonel
• Major = major
• Lieutenant = captain
• Lieutenant junior grade/Jig = 1st lieutenant
• Ensign = 2nd lieutenant

DTavona (talk) 10:57, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

My thought is that Admiral (without qualification) is a rank of its own, between Admiral Major and Admiral Minor. If so, that would explain why Lepescu is always referred to simply as Admiral Lepescu. Also, Grand Admiral may be a position (similar to how they use Captain) instead of a rank to distinguish whoever is the top officers from others of their rank. JDZeff (talk) 19:17, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

References

Fleet Families

Ignoring the families who are career enlisted, we actually know of five, three of which appear "on stage." Along with the Serrano and Lividhi families, the CO of the Shrike, Captain Solis, is said to be of one of the minor Fleet Families, with fewer admirals. In Once a Hero, shortly after Barin first meets Esmay, he's thinking about a cadet he knew at the Academy, "with the supple Demarian back," presumably another Fleet Family. (I don't have my copy handy, and may have gotten the name wrong.) And, near the end of Change of Command, Admiral Vida Serrano refers to "the Barringtons," in a way that implies that they're also one of the Founding Families. I haven't edited the article as yet, because two of the families are only implied, not stated and I'd like to give other interested parties a chance to comment. JDZeff (talk) 23:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC) Correction: It wasn't Captain Solis of the Shrike, it was Captain Escovar of the Gyrfalcon, the ship Barin Serrano was assigned to in that book. And, somebody mentions that there are many fine officers in Admiral Lepescu's family, suggesting that that might be another Fleet Family, but it's never verified. JDZeff (talk) 19:09, 30 October 2015 (UTC)