Talk:Falkirk (council area)

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Topic

This article is called "Falkirk Council". It is not called "Falkirk District" or "Falkirk Council Area" - maybe it should be. The sorts of things covered are similar to those covered by the article on Mid Bedfordshire District. It is rather surprising that an editor would write an edit summary reading: return to being about the council area its self, a separate article could be created on the council its self.[1] I would have expected an article called "Falkirk Council" to be about the council, what it does, etc. I would not have expected it to be about the area is administers. Toddy1 (talk) 20:04, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Toddy1: Hi, please see the recent entry at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests (and obviously contribute if you wish), this may help to explain the situation with the Scottish areas - or possibly complicate it further... Crowsus (talk) 20:11, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 March 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Move. Consensus is that this article is primarily about the council area, and has been from the start. Discussion can continue on creating a separate article on the Council. Cúchullain ^t/c 19:37, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Falkirk Council → Falkirk (council area) – Revert 2018 move, similar to Highland (council area) and Stirling (council area) it is about the are its self, not the council, a separate article could be created for the council similar to East Lothian Council but that should be created with a new edit history. Note that there's a proposal at Talk:Highland (council area)#Merge proposal regarding merging the council into the council area. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:50, 28 March 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. — Wug·a·po·des 00:57, 14 April 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. b uidhe 17:40, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:05, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Crouch, Swale, Crowsus, and Toddy1: queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:07, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support, the vast majority of links into Falkirk Council are redirects from the Falkirk (council area) target, and related categories use the latter term, e.g Category:Sport in Falkirk (council area). Content of the article relates more to the area than the current council body, an article for which could be created at the Falkirk Council page at a later time.
PS suggest the discussion at Highland mentioned above be disregarded, it was me who proposed it but there was a majority against, and having examined the situation in respect of some areas which were created in an earlier 1975 reorganisation, or earlier (this includes both Highland and Falkirk), there is scope for a geopolitical article to exist for each area alongside another one for the current administrative body with more specific election information etc. Crowsus (talk) 20:03, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I can see why you would want an article on Falkirk District (or Falkirk Council Area), but it is still good to have an article on the council. An article on Falkirk Council would tell people the political composition of the council, how many councillors for each ward, that has links to articles on council elections; these are all features of the present article. It would be nice if the article also listed the Provost and the Leader, and said something about what the council does. The present article does not say anything about the district that would not be be covered in an article on the council. If people want a separate article on the district (or "council area" if you prefer), they should try to create a new article on that. Toddy1 (talk) 20:26, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The council is only the body that deals with things rather than the territory its self. If an article about the council is desired it should be moved back and possibly a history split from 2018 onward moved to the council's article. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:31, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, the problem in this specific case is that the article was originally for the territory before being moved without discussion, leaving many imprecise redirects. It would be better to move it back to where it started and then look at forking stuff off to Falkirk Council. The territory is more important to have represented than the administrative body. Crowsus (talk) 20:52, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Toddy1: wouldn't you agree that we should move back then split of since as noted the history of this article is about the council area? Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The edit history concerning the council is of value to the article on the council. An ideal solution would probably be to duplicate the edit history so that both the article on the district and the article on the council had the same edit history up to now, and then diverge. Toddy1 (talk) 19:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but that doesn't mean we shouldn't move the council area (prior to 2018) back and then split the history as needed. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:16, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. There's no problem with creating a separate article on the council itself, but this article is about the council area. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:13, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I see that this has been relisted again, wouldn't it be sensible to just close this and split the histories and then have the discussion about if there should be separate articles? Crouch, Swale (talk) 05:07, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support as this article should be about the council area, not the council itself. A separate article for the council can be established later. Elshad (talk) 09:52, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Budget

This section is undue in relation to the rest of the article, none of the rest of the article is about the council's actions (good or bad), just purely it's political geography. This makes it disproportionate in not content and scale. It's also a bias towards recentism , as budgets will change every year and some have been good and others have been bad. Nearly every local authority in the UK I having to make similar cuts this year [2] and they're all equally well sourced, but randomly sampling them, this is the only one I can see where it has been added to the article like this. I've discussed these issues with the editor who made the changes, and he's questioned whether I have a conflict of interest in suggesting they should be removed, so I'm opening it up for further discussion. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 09:50, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree - I've deleted the section. There may be cases (e.g. Thurrock) where a council gets into such significant financial trouble as to require government intervention when it becomes notable enough to warrant mentioning on Wikipedia, but I don't see that Falkirk is yet in that category. Stortford (talk) 09:30, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]